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Fentanyl, a stealth killer

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Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#11
post #3

Just because fentanyl has a shit therapeutic index doesn't mean it has a high body count (it gets used just fine even in tandem with other depressants in clinical circumstances...) - I would say the problem is more in the hands of the tough-on-crime lawmakers who seem to lack, at least in my neck of the woods, remorse. Also, look up sufentanil, and once you feel you're ready, carfentanil.. Also, yes, yes, fentanyl is…

I love this website

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#12
post #4
post #2

There would be far, far fewer deaths from overdose if all drugs were legal. There may be more addicts if they were legal, I don't know - but there would be a lot fewer deaths.

I'm not against legalization, but have you done the research to back this up? We have plenty of alcohol-related deaths (both indirect (traffic, etc), and direct (alcohol poisoning).

We do have tons of alcohol deaths. But the idea here is that no one dies from alcohol today because their alcohol dealer slips in unknown amounts of toxic potentiators to cut costs (which is effectively what is happening with heroin et al. today).

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#13
post #12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against legalization, but have you done the research to back this up? We have plenty of alcohol-related deaths (both indirect (traffic, etc), and direct (alcohol poisoning).

We do have tons of alcohol deaths. But the idea here is that no one dies from alcohol today because their alcohol dealer slips in unknown amounts of toxic potentiators to cut costs (which is effectively what is happening with heroin et al. today).

That's not "strictly" overdose, but contamination. The original point still stands, re alcohol overdose.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#14
The mention of Fentanyl here is pure clickbait. Fentanyl is pretty well known amongst opiate addicts (and has been for a while). Everyone knows it's dangerous, including dealers, who like to avoid killing their customers and catching murder charges, believe it or not.

Aside from that and a bit of gateway drug BS towards the beginning, this is a solid and somewhat moving, if long, account of the standard Heroin story, and is more or less the same as the ones I hear from fellow recovering addicts all the time.

Key features, so you can avoid the longread:

* Insurance refusing to pay for treatment

* Parents being forced to get their kids arrested to protect them (and the plan failing)

* Relapse, relapse, and more relapse despite full knowledge of the consequences and a strong desire not to relapse.

* Terror of being dope sick

* Doing stuff you don't want to do to avoid being dope sick

* Death

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#15
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There would be far, far fewer deaths from overdose if all drugs were legal. 2/3rds of all overdoses are opiate related. The biggest impactor to preventing overdose death is the drug Naloxone which is an opioid blocker. Putting naloxone in the hands of at risk drug users, and as standard kit for police officers/EMTS, is the most effective way to save lives.

Many (if not like more than half, I forget the statistic..) of those overdose deaths result from combining a GABAergic like alcohol or especially benzodiazepines with an opioid.

I wonder why mixing cns depressants is so common? Is it because opioids are so expensive / hard to get, and benzos/alcohol easier to get and cheaper? Or is it simply a better feeling mixing them...

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#16
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many (if not like more than half, I forget the statistic..) of those overdose deaths result from combining a GABAergic like alcohol or especially benzodiazepines with an opioid.

I wonder why mixing cns depressants is so common? Is it because opioids are so expensive / hard to get, and benzos/alcohol easier to get and cheaper? Or is it simply a better feeling mixing them...

Both, and 3. throwing caution/life to the wind..

oh, and 4. combining a stimulant with a larger/more euphoric dose of the CNS depressants so if the respiratory stimulating effects of the stimulant run out first, respiratory depression ensues

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#17
Fentanyl is coming from China and other places. The main problem is the users not knowing what they are getting and dose exchanges, not the opioid itself. The DEA and people using addicts to make money instead of treating as a healthcare problem is what is causing this.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#18
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why mixing cns depressants is so common? Is it because opioids are so expensive / hard to get, and benzos/alcohol easier to get and cheaper? Or is it simply a better feeling mixing them...

Both, and 3. throwing caution/life to the wind.. oh, and 4. combining a stimulant with a larger/more euphoric dose of the CNS depressants so if the respiratory stimulating effects of the stimulant run out first, respiratory depression ensues

In my experience doing a heroic amount of opioids was enough to not care, uppers mixed in as anti-nod.

I didn't understand why people mixed in benzos, unless to curb withdrawals.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#19
post #4
post #2

There would be far, far fewer deaths from overdose if all drugs were legal. There may be more addicts if they were legal, I don't know - but there would be a lot fewer deaths.

I'm not against legalization, but have you done the research to back this up? We have plenty of alcohol-related deaths (both indirect (traffic, etc), and direct (alcohol poisoning).

It is hard to get true data, when the only supposedly creditable source (CDC), mixes its data to include all prescription drugs including SSRI's and illicit fentanyl from china.

Opioids can be used in VERY high doses as a person becomes more dependent. What is clear is that people are use to heroin and then take the higher dose without knowing and OD. This is the current trend. It is cheaper to get the Fent from Ch than the H from Afgan.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#20
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against legalization, but have you done the research to back this up? We have plenty of alcohol-related deaths (both indirect (traffic, etc), and direct (alcohol poisoning).

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67... > Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.

This study comes up time and again but is really not founded very well. I couple of members of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs - whatever exactly that is - sat together and scored a selection of drugs on a selected set of criteria. That's it, there is really no data behind this study other than the opinions of those people. Those opinions might be correct but they may as well be biased or even totally wrong.
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