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Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

bloomberg.com

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Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#11

Post by mc32 »

JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

I agree climate change has to be taken seriously and we need to study ways to mitigate the effects of our GHG output. No doubt.

On the Japan question. No, I think and hope they continue to be uniquely stubborn. Why? Because we are all going to be there (we would have been there if we'd be as strict as Latin American countries are about their own immigration). Japan can lead the way for us and for others on how to deal with this issue (population decline).

Japan is in fact dealing with their issue head on by not importing workers. By not importing workers they are not defraying the issue. They are doing the opposite of dealing with consequences later.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#12

Post by Gravityloss »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #2

I have trouble interpreting stories like these as anything other than scare tactics. I'm not a "denier". I'm acknowledging that there's been an increase, generally in the range of 1-2 degrees F. But given an increase of that magnitude, I find it very hard to blame for the kinds of problems being described here. 1F to 2F is well within the normal range of variation, and so if the roadways are suffering from it, it mus…

I wonder, if a road lasted for seventy years, and then became unusable because of changes within ten, one could say that it's not within the "normal" variation anymore?

Probably someone has an article that is a lot more exact and involves a lot more statistics...

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#14

Post by lkrubner »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #2

I have trouble interpreting stories like these as anything other than scare tactics. I'm not a "denier". I'm acknowledging that there's been an increase, generally in the range of 1-2 degrees F. But given an increase of that magnitude, I find it very hard to blame for the kinds of problems being described here. 1F to 2F is well within the normal range of variation, and so if the roadways are suffering from it, it mus…

You are in fact a mild denier. Merely writing "I'm not a denier" doesn't change the implications of what you are writing. While world wide changes might so far amount to 1-2 degrees F, it is well known that the warming is concentrated in the northern and southern latitudes, so the changes in Alaska are much more than the global average.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#15

Post by vkou »

superswordfish wrote: post #8
JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

It seems like we're discovering a bunch of technologies that involve removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere now (and even using it as a resource). That isn't the only problem gas, but I'm optimistic that we will solve the "greenhouse effect" problem through this sort of climate engineering before the real disaster of rising sea levels gets too far. In a century people will probably be freaked out by a host of is…

The real disaster isn't rising sealevels (except in Bangladesh). Homes can be rebuilt. Its just a question of money. The real disaster is agricultural collapse in the tropics and subtropics.

Either way, it would be far cheaper to switch our energy production to renewables, then to geo-engineer on a planet scale. We aren't doing that in any meaningful way.

Instead we pat ourselves on the back for reducing US coal energy generation to 37%. Never mind that this entire reduction comes from burning natural gas...

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#16

Post by dagss »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #2

I have trouble interpreting stories like these as anything other than scare tactics. I'm not a "denier". I'm acknowledging that there's been an increase, generally in the range of 1-2 degrees F. But given an increase of that magnitude, I find it very hard to blame for the kinds of problems being described here. 1F to 2F is well within the normal range of variation, and so if the roadways are suffering from it, it mus…

So what are you saying happened -- somebody went in with machinery and created the cracks in the road, then go and pretend it is warming?

Others have pointed out that avg(Alaska, Summer) != avg(World, All Year)

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#17

Post by vkou »

gruez wrote: post #6
JustUhThought wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1-2 degrees globally . Celsius . And the predictions are consistently outpaced by reality.

To add to this, it's not as if temperatures everywhere went up by 1-2 degrees. polar areas are more affected than average by global warming

The average world temperature is 1.4 C above the baseline this year. Yes, the poles have been hit the hardest, but we are still outpacing all predictions.

Meanwhile, in 2015, the world's governments have agreed to cap warming to 2.0 C by 2100... But won't take any action today. Why do I have the feeling that we will completely miss that target?

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#18

Post by hx87 »

mc32 wrote: post #11
JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

I agree climate change has to be taken seriously and we need to study ways to mitigate the effects of our GHG output. No doubt. On the Japan question. No, I think and hope they continue to be uniquely stubborn. Why? Because we are all going to be there (we would have been there if we'd be as strict as Latin American countries are about their own immigration). Japan can lead the way for us and for others on how to dea…

Besides, population decline could very well be a large part of the answer to the problem of automation and labor redundancy. Who cares if you have less workers if you /need/ less workers?

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#19

Post by intopieces »

mc32 wrote: post #11
JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

I agree climate change has to be taken seriously and we need to study ways to mitigate the effects of our GHG output. No doubt. On the Japan question. No, I think and hope they continue to be uniquely stubborn. Why? Because we are all going to be there (we would have been there if we'd be as strict as Latin American countries are about their own immigration). Japan can lead the way for us and for others on how to dea…

In what way is importing workers "defraying the issue"? Also, why would the population of the US decline? White people aren't having babies like they used to, but other groups don't show the same trend. It's the reason why the US is on track to become a majority-minority country long before the original estimated 2050. California's already there.

People are still clamorimg to get into the US, and fighting tooth and nail to stay here.

You are the first person I've read that considers not importing workers a solution, rather than a symptom of cultural insularity that threatens to bring down their economy through the burden of an aging population.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#20

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #11
JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

I agree climate change has to be taken seriously and we need to study ways to mitigate the effects of our GHG output. No doubt. On the Japan question. No, I think and hope they continue to be uniquely stubborn. Why? Because we are all going to be there (we would have been there if we'd be as strict as Latin American countries are about their own immigration). Japan can lead the way for us and for others on how to dea…

[deleted]
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