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Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

bbc.com

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Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#21

Post by pauljohncleary »

Houshalter wrote: post #19
Pelser wrote: post #13

The opposite might also be true - maybe slow motion shows true entent rather?

Perhaps. It seems like the issue is with slowmo is it looks like you have more time to decide and react, then you actually do. In real time it's more clear that an action was reactive, and that there was no time to make a calculated decision.

Different people think at different speeds[1], so if we really want to judge someone based on what we see as a reactive action, we'd need to measure their "thinking speed" first to get a full picture.

1 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1021695...

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#22

Post by benevol »

A slow-motion replay is just 1 way of "looking closer".

The thing is, in order to not be hypocritical, we'd need to look as closely as possible.

Once we do that, we'll be looking at the molecular structure of not only the brain of the perpetrator but also the whole body (as there is of course infinite interaction). We'll be asking for the causes that led to the body being as it was at the moment of the thing will currently call "crime".

We'll end up understanding that there is no free will, which will force us to rethink what we call "punishment".

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#23

Post by evolonce »

benevol wrote: post #22

A slow-motion replay is just 1 way of "looking closer". The thing is, in order to not be hypocritical, we'd need to look as closely as possible. Once we do that, we'll be looking at the molecular structure of not only the brain of the perpetrator but also the whole body (as there is of course infinite interaction). We'll be asking for the causes that led to the body being as it was at the moment of the thing will cur…

Hear, hear!

Although I don't think people here are interested in hearing arguments that don't click in desired ways with their economic interests.

Rather sadistic, the graying-out option, when used on posts like this.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#24

Post by sametmax »

benevol wrote: post #22

A slow-motion replay is just 1 way of "looking closer". The thing is, in order to not be hypocritical, we'd need to look as closely as possible. Once we do that, we'll be looking at the molecular structure of not only the brain of the perpetrator but also the whole body (as there is of course infinite interaction). We'll be asking for the causes that led to the body being as it was at the moment of the thing will cur…

That's suppose the world is perfectly causal. However, there are areas where are are not sure about this:

- chaos; - quantum phenomenum; - creative thoughts;

Not saying it's not causal, but since we can't prove it is, yet, we can't state for sure there is no free will. Which would bother the hell out of many people :)

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#25

Post by rubidium »

benevol wrote: post #22

A slow-motion replay is just 1 way of "looking closer". The thing is, in order to not be hypocritical, we'd need to look as closely as possible. Once we do that, we'll be looking at the molecular structure of not only the brain of the perpetrator but also the whole body (as there is of course infinite interaction). We'll be asking for the causes that led to the body being as it was at the moment of the thing will cur…

Is there any way for your statement (which has many bold assertions) to lead anywhere but "We're all just victims of our genes"?

Your materialistic assumptions are a wonderful way to do science, but a terrible way to be human or govern.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#26

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

I think what slow motion does is reveal the full violence of an action. Some commenters have mentioned that slow-motion tackles and punches look much worse than they do in real life. However, in real life, I think we underestimate the violence. Medical research into things like CTE has revealed that there is actually brain damage occurring during those plays.

Notice the research used a gunshot video. I think the average person underestimates the violence inflicted by a bullet because our human intuition fails us for small objects traveling that fast. I think what slow-motion does is help reveal the true violence inflicted on another person whether from a punch, tackle, or gunshot.

Update:

IANAL but also note that in this specific case, murder during commission of a felony ( armed robbery ) would be classed in many states as felony murder and would be first degree murder. See http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/murder-durin...

So if this is a felony murder state, the slow motion would actually help the jury come to the correct conclusion.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#27

Post by fiatjaf »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

I think what slow motion does is reveal the full violence of an action. Some commenters have mentioned that slow-motion tackles and punches look much worse than they do in real life. However, in real life, I think we underestimate the violence. Medical research into things like CTE has revealed that there is actually brain damage occurring during those plays. Notice the research used a gunshot video. I think the aver…

Nailed it.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#28

Post by erez »

pauljohncleary wrote: post #20
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you get into watching cricket umpiring decisions that are referred to a TV umpire (by players or umpires) - slow motion replay (with a separate camera to normal tv coverage), hotspot cameras, microphones, ball tracking...

With cricket the player's intent is not considered unlike many other sports and in courtroom trials. So looking at the most minute detail (e.g. the snickometer, the checks if the ball made a "snick" sound passing the bat, indicating contact) makes sense to the sport.

I think there's something in the LBW rules about intent, not to mention the whole concept of "where would've the ball gone has it not been etc. etc." I personally dislike the whole fixation over minutiae in Cricket today. The Laws should, I think, be updated for the new technology, for instance the front-foot no-ball which now is preposterous when they keep trying to see whether a millimetre of the foot crossed the line or not, or the run-out with whether the bat was firmly touching the ground on the other side of the crease or not. Those laws were fine when the umpiring wasn't technology assisted, but they are turning the whole game to a circus these days.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#29

Post by orf »

cmdrfred wrote: post #17
anexprogrammer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more about bringing independence to the judgement. It's a check against the system, or an overly powerful state. A judge may know the law more precisely than a layperson, but is no less fallible. But they are of the system. Juries work remarkably well on that basis. That's not to say they're likely to be better at deciding truth, guilt or innocence. They'll undoubtedly bring some of their prejudices in from the…

This exists in the US as well but the judge will throw you into contempt if you mention it.

US courtroom practices seem to be very very different from UK ones, despite the same origin.

Re: Slow-motion replays can distort criminal responsibility

#30

Post by thaumasiotes »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #11
afandian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view is that the aim of a using juries is to bring the things humans are good at* to the judgment process, i.e. deciding who's lying under cross-examination. Humans might be good at detecting 'intent' in the real world and calibrated for reality. Their calibration might be completely wrong for slow-motion. So maybe slow-mo does give a better view of what happened to establish the facts of the matter but may drasti…

It's more about bringing independence to the judgement. It's a check against the system, or an overly powerful state. A judge may know the law more precisely than a layperson, but is no less fallible. But they are of the system. Juries work remarkably well on that basis. That's not to say they're likely to be better at deciding truth, guilt or innocence. They'll undoubtedly bring some of their prejudices in from the…

There are a lot of examples of jury nullification in the US.

- The famous Zenger trial was a jury nullification. It did influence the development of US law -- later, but it was overtly contrary to the very well-established law of the time.

- Jury nullification was common for alcohol-related crimes in Prohibition.

- It was also common for lynch mob participants.

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