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Make Algorithms Accountable

nytimes.com

11–20 of 33 posts

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#11
I think the problem is vastly more subtle and fundamental than the author of this piece (and ProPublica in general, given their previous coverage of the same story) is giving credit.

Software is in a dangerous place right now[1]. Half[2]-way between stupid and smart. Recent advances from fields like Machine Learning have moved the software out of world of the purely deterministic. Stochastic methods have given us software that can live in the gray that is reality; this has made it mighty. Particular subdomains that were once entirely the purview of human workers are rapidly moving towards automation. These algorithms have gotten good enough at what they do, accurate enough at what they do, that they are approaching the semantic-work-outsourcing limit that is 'trustworthiness'; You can treat them more like agents than tools, and trust that they do their job sufficiently well that you, the consumer of their work, need not worry about the details; you get to take the executive role of dealing only with the abstractions they provide. "Just tell me yes or no if we should do this". You implicitly trust that the system will "Do The Right Thing"; of course it will, it's got a fantastic resume with some great recommendations[3].

The problem is, the algs are also still dumb. Very dumb. They cannot model themselves. They cannot introspect. And, perhaps most crucially, they cannot interface with their newly-promoted executives in the lingua franca to explain why they're dumb. When you want to figure out why the intern decided that it would be a good idea to name all their variables some permutation of the words 'herp' and 'derp', you march over to their cube and ask them. A conversation occurs. Different perspectives are exchanged via a common protocol[4]. New knowledge is acquired. A mutual understanding is reached. When you want to figure out why your Facial Recognition Software isn't acknowledging Black People[5]... you go get a Masters in Statistics, Distributed System, Probability Theory, with a minor in Anthropology and Demographics. Then you spend a month reading code and running experiments. The software, briefly perceived as a trustable agent that knows how to do its job, suddenly becomes a tool again, because you can't just ask it why it screwed up so badly. And not just any tool; an incredibly complicated, fragile, and opaque tool, with a million different knobs and dials and a Gordian nest of pipework and conduits that would make even the bravest chaotician sweat a little bit. Even when you've open sourced the data and implementation and the deployment architecture and the napkins you've been scribbling hyperparameters on, the box is still pretty damn black.

And so, while auditability or accountability is important, it's only a small (and very, very, very hard) piece of the societal changes that might be needed. Changes in ethics (who goes to jail when a UAV confuses a hospital for a barracks? What does a smart gun do if its wielder pulls the trigger while pointing at a civilian?). Changes in focus (Is it correct to make such deterministic choices about the world? Maybe Hume was right and the predictability of human behavior is slightly harder than we currently state it to be[6]. Maybe accuracy is bounded lower than we like, and so justification should be the primary target). Changes in education (and a reduction in the magical thinking about computers. I hope some distant ancestors of mine finally see the day that computers are as boring and obvious as hammers).

I worry about focusing so much on accountability because as it stands now, a highly autidable system as defined by the article still needs deep domain knowledge to even begin theorizing about. All of these things above and more will probably need to shift as well, whether deliberately or not, in order to accommodate these smart-dumb tool-agent hybrids we have now, systems that we're building right now, that are just powerful enough to be dangerous.

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[1] Every generation has said these exact words about every technological advance across every field for as long as we've been finding ways of rendering human beings obsolete. I'm sure there's some philologically reconstructible PIE for the phrase "those scientists are playing god". We've discovered it before, and I have no doubt we'll discover again solutions for these things, but that doesn't render the conversation in the interim any less meaningful.

[2] 'Half' is probably optimistic. Consider it an upper bound.

[3] Studied at MNIST... Tuned by Hinton and Ng... Deployed on three customer engagements with great KPIs... Very impressive stuff, Mr. Convolutional!

[4] I mean Natural Language here, but I suppose baseball bats and guttural screams may be other possible channels in this particular scenario.

[5] Or why your self-driving smart car crashed into a cement barrier

[6] I was trying to construct some pun about "the son not rising to the mistakes of the father tomorrow". It was pretty bad.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#12

It's tremendously disheartening to see the mainstream media repeating ProPublica's lies. They ran a statistical analysis. Their R-script said that bias was statistically insignificant. So they repeated a bunch of anecdotes in the story and left that part of the analysis out. Reporting null results won't get you cited by the NYT, I guess. https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/propublica_is_lying.... The power of the…

>> The Opinion Pages | Op-Ed Contributor >> Julia Angwin is a reporter at ProPublica.

It looks like this is an Opinion piece from ProPublica. Not much better, I know, but the trail of bias is at least a little less obscured

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Yes, this was a viable solution back in the day because there was a 90% chance (made up number, but you get the idea) that denying someone from a redlined district was a good financial choice, and it was too expensive to do a detailed analysis to determine if an applicant was in the other 10%. With the automated credit checking and statistical analysis available these days, this isn't really an issue anymore. Banks c…

The example of redlining is actually a perfect rebuttal to "private individuals ought not to be accountable to anyone for their decisions."

Biases can be encoded in algorithms. For example, what if data they used to build their models was biased? It's conceivable that a bank's algorithm could be racist, and still be okay for their bottom line. Just letting the market decide is not enough.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#14
post #11

I think the problem is vastly more subtle and fundamental than the author of this piece (and ProPublica in general, given their previous coverage of the same story) is giving credit. Software is in a dangerous place right now[1]. Half[2]-way between stupid and smart. Recent advances from fields like Machine Learning have moved the software out of world of the purely deterministic. Stochastic methods have given us sof…

So first of all this isn't a new thing. The statistical methods vs human judgement debate goes back decades. Long before computers, people were training simple linear models with pencil and paper. The earliest paper I found is from 1928, on a similar issue as in the article. Where a very crude statistical algorithm was better at predicting recidivism of inmates, than three prison psychologists. This isn't a new thing at all.

Second the models in question aren't as complicated as you imagine. These are just decision trees with a few hundred inputs at most. Even with more complicated models, you can train simpler models to mimic them, and then inspect at those. There are other ways to make algorithms more transparent, but my point is these aren't complicated image recognition deep neural nets. They don't need to be either.

Third I don't think these algorithms are "dumb". By all accounts they significantly outperform humans. Humans, even experts, are terrible at doing even basic statistics in their head. Often our decisions aren't much better than random chance. Even when humans are allowed to see the results of an algorithm, and tweak it's output when they think it's making a mistake, they do worse than just the algorithm alone.

There's now evidence to suggest humans are irrationally biased against algorithms. Search for "algorithm aversion". A study shows that even after watching a statistical algorithm do better, people still prefer worse human judgement.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#15
post #2

I have a moral objection to the government using mechanized algorithms for e.g. sentencing, because the government is (or ought to be) accountable to the public, and must be able to justify all actions. Proprietary algorithms are particularly odious, because it is impossible to "justify" a decision even in the sense of tracing how the algorithm got to that point. On the other hand, private individuals ought not to be…

Your argument in the second paragraph seems to be that arbitrary discrimination, for instance racial discrimination, is economically irrational; discriminatory companies will be out-competed by non-discriminatory companies.

But this ignores the historic reality of racial discrimination, which is that in some areas of the US, at some points in time, a significant number of white people were bigoted, and strongly (for no good reason) disliked black people. If you opened a restaurant that served people of all colors, your white customers would disappear. If your bank made loans to black people who wanted to buy homes in traditionally white neighborhoods, your white depositors would take their business elsewhere.

The civil rights laws of the 1960s made it economically feasible for businesses in these regions to stop discriminating; there were no longer any "white only" businesses for white bigots to patronize.

If you want to argue that in our more "enlightened" times, such anti-discrimination laws are no longer necessary, that's fine, but you will need to provide a certain amount of proof that things have changed.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#16
post #11

I think the problem is vastly more subtle and fundamental than the author of this piece (and ProPublica in general, given their previous coverage of the same story) is giving credit. Software is in a dangerous place right now[1]. Half[2]-way between stupid and smart. Recent advances from fields like Machine Learning have moved the software out of world of the purely deterministic. Stochastic methods have given us sof…

So first of all this isn't a new thing. The statistical methods vs human judgement debate goes back decades. Long before computers, people were training simple linear models with pencil and paper. The earliest paper I found is from 1928, on a similar issue as in the article. Where a very crude statistical algorithm was better at predicting recidivism of inmates, than three prison psychologists. This isn't a new thing…

Yep, like I said, it's absolutely an old problem, even when it comes to statistical techniques.

I understand that the particular models in the article are on the simpler side. I was speaking more generally. As to whether the models in question here need to be more complicated, well, that is an interesting question.

Humans are absolutely terrible at doing basic statistics in their head. Algorithm aversion is probably a thing, no doubt motivated by similar anthrocentric biases to luddism. My point was there are other ways of measuring how 'good' a system is. In the space of a well-defined problem with well-defined parameters, sure, maybe accuracy is king. This is strikes me as akin to trying to build a bridge while assuming that the world is a frictionless vacuum. If everyone has agreed that the problem is correctly framed, then yes, a statistical system can be trusted, the mathematics are inevitable. But a statistical model (the current iterations of them, at least) is never going to ask whether or not it -should- only be considering the inputs its given, or whether more is needed. The world that these systems understand consists of the subset of the world provided to them by a set of sample data The patterns they learn can only ever be as good as that.

That's what I mean by 'dumb'. Not that they aren't good at what they do. That they aren't good at knowing about what they can't do.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Yes, this was a viable solution back in the day because there was a 90% chance (made up number, but you get the idea) that denying someone from a redlined district was a good financial choice, and it was too expensive to do a detailed analysis to determine if an applicant was in the other 10%. With the automated credit checking and statistical analysis available these days, this isn't really an issue anymore. Banks c…

> Yes, this was a viable solution back in the day because there was a 90% chance (made up number, but you get the idea) that denying someone from a redlined district was a good financial choice,

No That wasn't the reason why redlining existed. It existed because it was explicitly racist policy enabled directly from the National Housing Act of 1934[0] -- which was basically just codifying the existing racist attitudes of the day.[1] It stemmed from the racist idea that blacks were inherently bad neighbors in all ways you can imagine. To say this was merely a good enough heuristic, or even the result of government over reach is grossly misunderstand the historical context of these policies. These policies were not any more controversial than saying, we should not zone a preschool next to a oil refinery.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#History

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case...

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#19
I would love—assuming Congress had their heads in the right place—to make a small council (council to prevent Luddite or crazy Presidents/Congresses from completely wreaking havoc) that would understand tech stuff like we do. People who just comment "Yea that's not how this works," or "hey techies think this is a good idea." Because I give a lot of governments good credit on tech stuff (and especially local governments) but on the federal level I think we're a little lost and lobbyists get to influence what congress members believe.

Re: Make Algorithms Accountable

#20

I would love—assuming Congress had their heads in the right place—to make a small council (council to prevent Luddite or crazy Presidents/Congresses from completely wreaking havoc) that would understand tech stuff like we do. People who just comment "Yea that's not how this works," or "hey techies think this is a good idea." Because I give a lot of governments good credit on tech stuff (and especially local governmen…

Technology isn't special. Politicians are also uneducated on every other industry and area of life. It's just that when they misunderstand technology you notice.
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