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Django 1.10 released

djangoproject.com

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Re: Django 1.10 released

#41

Post by sneakymichael »

graffitici wrote: post #40
orf wrote: post #27

Shame about Channels, but I see the logic in not including it. Django is pretty awesome as a backend, and while it's not a 'cool' framework anymore (I feel old!) it's amazing for writing back-office applications. I use it as an API backend with Django-rest-framework. The advantage is you get ridiculous amounts of packages that all integrate with Django that does pretty much anything you want. Also the ORM doesn't suc…

Why did the ORM suck before? Were there major changes done to the ORM?

Potentially in part because, until fairly recently (version 1.7 I believe), Django didn't have support for database schema migration built-in- https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/topics/migrations/

Re: Django 1.10 released

#42

Post by graffitici »

sneakymichael wrote: post #41
graffitici wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did the ORM suck before? Were there major changes done to the ORM?

Potentially in part because, until fairly recently (version 1.7 I believe), Django didn't have support for database schema migration built-in- https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/topics/migrations/

I see. If that's the only reason, not sure if it's a major problem with the ORM, given that you could use South instead with almost the same outcome.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#43

Post by CuriouslyC »

RussianCow wrote: post #26
CuriouslyC wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point unless you are going to using a lot of Python's scientific computing apparatus, or you want the ability to rewrite "hot" code in Cython for better performance. If you are primarily focused on social-esque or CRUD-heavy apps there isn't really an upside vs Rails.

What could you possibly be doing that you need those things within a Django app? If you're placing CPU-intensive and scientific code directly into your web app backend, I'd rethink your architecture before you consider switching languages.

Of course anything long running is going to be run as a service via something like Celery. That being said, there are actually a lot of things you can do with SciPy for which the turnaround time isn't sufficient to justify dispatching multiple messages.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#44

Post by dguaraglia »

Walkman wrote: post #13
dchuk wrote: post #5

As a Rails dude...is there any reason for me to learn Django at all? Everything I've heard about it is that it provides a lot of sane defaults (like Rails) but has much less "magic" than Rails is typically thought to have. And if the answer to my question is yes, what books/tutorials/screencasts/courses to people recommend to get started with?

My suggestion: don't bother. The "less magic" things comes because of Python's explicitness (not because of Django at all).

Well, there was actually a concerted effort to remove magic (back in pre 1.0, in a branch aptly called "magic-removal".) The problem was that convention-over-configuration was tripping a lot of new people. It was actually the reason I decided to go with Django over Rails.

That said, I feel like nowadays Rails and Django are more or less equally capable, so choosing one over the other might be a matter of language and ecosystem preference over anything else.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#45

Post by [deleted] »

RussianCow wrote: post #26
CuriouslyC wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point unless you are going to using a lot of Python's scientific computing apparatus, or you want the ability to rewrite "hot" code in Cython for better performance. If you are primarily focused on social-esque or CRUD-heavy apps there isn't really an upside vs Rails.

What could you possibly be doing that you need those things within a Django app? If you're placing CPU-intensive and scientific code directly into your web app backend, I'd rethink your architecture before you consider switching languages.

[deleted]

Re: Django 1.10 released

#46

Post by wandering2 »

bdr wrote: post #22
dchuk wrote: post #5

As a Rails dude...is there any reason for me to learn Django at all? Everything I've heard about it is that it provides a lot of sane defaults (like Rails) but has much less "magic" than Rails is typically thought to have. And if the answer to my question is yes, what books/tutorials/screencasts/courses to people recommend to get started with?

As someone who picked Django over Rails ~10 years ago and has used it for everything since then-- I wouldn't bother. Django and Rails, like Python and Ruby, look more and more similar as time goes on. Not because they are becoming more similar, but because the web ecosystem around them has become a lot more diverse. If you want a break from Rails, learn Phoenix! Or Node, I guess. Furthermore, with the advent of fat f…

>front-end features like form generation and HTML templating were really important, but now they're arguably better to avoid.

Why is that?

Re: Django 1.10 released

#47

Post by hrayr »

rufugee wrote: post #38
bdr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who picked Django over Rails ~10 years ago and has used it for everything since then-- I wouldn't bother. Django and Rails, like Python and Ruby, look more and more similar as time goes on. Not because they are becoming more similar, but because the web ecosystem around them has become a lot more diverse. If you want a break from Rails, learn Phoenix! Or Node, I guess. Furthermore, with the advent of fat f…

What a refreshingly honest answer...thank you. It's not often you see that sort of candor. I was personally a Rails guy, then switched to learning Django, but had the experience you note...both frameworks solved many problems which aren't as relevant in this age of SPAs. I suppose if you really liked Django's ORM it might be worth it, but doubt there's a huge amount of value to be gained. YMMV.

I suppose if the framework, community and ecosystem are on par with each other, then the deciding factor would be the language.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#48

Post by sdegutis »

orf wrote: post #27

Shame about Channels, but I see the logic in not including it. Django is pretty awesome as a backend, and while it's not a 'cool' framework anymore (I feel old!) it's amazing for writing back-office applications. I use it as an API backend with Django-rest-framework. The advantage is you get ridiculous amounts of packages that all integrate with Django that does pretty much anything you want. Also the ORM doesn't suc…

Huh. Your argument in favor of Django is basically "it may not be cool, but it's got a lot of libraries written for it." Which is basically the same thing people used to say (and still say) about Java, compared to something "cool" and "new" like, say, Django or Rails (at the time). In other words, Django used to be picked because it was the hot new thing, but since then it's no longer hot or new, but since enough people adopted it, they wrote enough libraries for it to make it worth continuing to use on new projects.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#49

Post by bdr »

wandering2 wrote: post #46
bdr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who picked Django over Rails ~10 years ago and has used it for everything since then-- I wouldn't bother. Django and Rails, like Python and Ruby, look more and more similar as time goes on. Not because they are becoming more similar, but because the web ecosystem around them has become a lot more diverse. If you want a break from Rails, learn Phoenix! Or Node, I guess. Furthermore, with the advent of fat f…

>front-end features like form generation and HTML templating were really important, but now they're arguably better to avoid. Why is that?

It's the DRY principle. If you have a single-page app, the frontend needs to know how to render everything (using JS), so rendering on your backend as well is, at best, duplicated work. There may also be complications at the boundary of those regimes, like how your frontend initializes on top of server-rendered HTML.

Re: Django 1.10 released

#50

Post by viiralvx »

wandering2 wrote: post #46
bdr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who picked Django over Rails ~10 years ago and has used it for everything since then-- I wouldn't bother. Django and Rails, like Python and Ruby, look more and more similar as time goes on. Not because they are becoming more similar, but because the web ecosystem around them has become a lot more diverse. If you want a break from Rails, learn Phoenix! Or Node, I guess. Furthermore, with the advent of fat f…

>front-end features like form generation and HTML templating were really important, but now they're arguably better to avoid. Why is that?

Not OP but I feel like it's because JavaScript has evolved enough that some of the niceties they offered before doesn't make sense. I like using Ember.js and doing client-side validations is pretty darn easy without complicated JS. Additionally, having inherited a legacy Rails project that uses `remote: true` in it's forms, it is causing more of a headache to fix these legacy issues.
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