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Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

nytimes.com

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Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#161

Post by ChrisLTD »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #136

Friendly reminder: Not voting can be a vote in and of itself. A vote of "no confidence". True, voting for an alternative candidate will take a percentage of the votes away from Clinton or Trump, and having them win by a lower percentage would be a satisfying way to sock it to the system and send a message. (Although, knowing the media, if the stats started to look bad they would probably start reporting Clinton and T…

Even if the President was elected by only 15-17% of eligible voters, they would still wield 100% of the power of the presidency.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#163

Post by plandis »

gotherewhere wrote: post #75

Don't see why folk don't vote for Gary Johnson. He appeals to both Bernie Sanders voters and disenfranchised Republicans.

Sanders and Johnson couldn't be more far apart on economic policy. It's a false equivalence to say that they are similar.

One is inherently for welfare the other vehemently against it in most forms.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#164

Post by simonbh »

lettergram wrote: post #117
matwood wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite an interesting time. My liberal friends are all irked because Bernie got hosed by the DNC. My conservative friends are irked because the RNC did not do more to stop Trump. Talk about a role reversal with the party of the people and the party of the establishment. Personally, I see so many problems with both candidates that it makes me sick that I have to vote for the least worst one.

You don't actually have to vote for the least worst one... I recommend looking to third party candidates. The libertarian party has two pretty solid lineup and polls third at the moment (like 11% or something this election cycle). That being said, you can also protest vote by putting in "Edward Snowden" or something. Honestly, I find it horrifying people feel the need to vote for the "least worst option". You're esse…

FYI, Edward Snowden is too young to qualify for president of the US, at least in this election season.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#165

Post by sbjustin »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #136

Friendly reminder: Not voting can be a vote in and of itself. A vote of "no confidence". True, voting for an alternative candidate will take a percentage of the votes away from Clinton or Trump, and having them win by a lower percentage would be a satisfying way to sock it to the system and send a message. (Although, knowing the media, if the stats started to look bad they would probably start reporting Clinton and T…

The politicians don't care. Vote third party and get someone in there who will actually enact change.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#166

Post by chrisseaton »

tanderson92 wrote: post #156
chrisseaton wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should the parties have a legal monopoly on ballot-line presence That was the original question (from someone else). It sounds like we've agreed that the answer is 'they shouldn't' and 'this year they don't'.

I don't agree with that. What I agree with is 'they shouldn't' and 'this year they haven't exercised the option that they have to do so'. As I said earlier, Johnson poses no threat to the GOP, and Stein isn't seen as a significant threat (and isn't).

I can sort of understand that you mean that you think they have the option to have a monopoly, if they felt they needed to exercise it.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#167

Post by seren »

ajmurmann wrote: post #142
awesomerobot wrote: post #29

Our voting system really needs to change, it's completely absurd that it hasn't just moved to a weekend or received special treatment as holidays.

I think what's absurd is that we have a highly polarized political landscape that combined wit the voting system leads to a two party system. That could be easily changed by switching to approval voting. Neither Hilary nor Trump would be close to being viable candidates, since they both had bad approval ratings. As it is now everyone is just voting against the candidate they are most scared of. What's even more absur…

The polarized political landscape is probably a result of the voting system though. In a winner take it all systems, you can get a vote at "any cost" since you won't have to make any coalition later.

The only thing in favor of the system is that it creates a clear winner, proportional systems might be more fair, but if parties fail to create a majority coalition you are back to square one.

An ideal system might need to mix these two approaches (and some other like vote ranking, lists, etc)

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#168

Post by VLM »

jorgeleo wrote: post #110

I found funny that there are more non-citizens than Hillary or Trump voters

Not very funny for them, because their polling stats are extremely skewed politically, resulting in amnesty turning into a political football. If illegals voted perfectly 50:50 D:R they would have gotten amnesty decades ago and everything would have been reformed and sensible for generations, but its seen as an automatic source of "D" votes therefore as long as we have "D" and "R" they'll fight over it rather than fix it. A one line summary of why our immigration system is all screwed up, is most people who want to come here want to vote "D" and that riles up both the "D" and "R" parties therefore nothing can ever be fixed.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#169

Post by Crespyl »

humanrebar wrote: post #130
lostapathy wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote libertarian?

Johnson is not a very good libertarian, ironically.

Arguably that makes him an even better choice for non-libertarians who are fed up with both of the major parties.

I desperately want to see a third option on the debate stage.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#170

Post by jondubois »

matwood wrote: post #44
icc97 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely agree. The article appears to be painting a very dark picture that 91% don't want the candidates. Where as this is just stating the obvious of what happens in every country that first puts forward a leader of a party that is contending to win the overall election.

It is quite an interesting time. My liberal friends are all irked because Bernie got hosed by the DNC. My conservative friends are irked because the RNC did not do more to stop Trump. Talk about a role reversal with the party of the people and the party of the establishment. Personally, I see so many problems with both candidates that it makes me sick that I have to vote for the least worst one.

Yes I think that this election was just completely dominated by marketing/advertising. There seems to be no substance behind it at all. I don't think people really had the opportunity to hear about Bernie Sanders and other more worthy candidates.

As a foreigner not living in the US (but following the process nevertheless) I hardly even heard about Bernie Sanders until he lost the candidacy to Hillary Clinton - After that, I did a bit of research on him and he actually seemed like the perfect candidate to solve the US's current problems - If I could, I would definitely have voted for him.

Maybe it was different inside the US, but from outside, almost no one would even recognize the name "Bernie Sanders" because he just wasn't given any attention in the media.

If the media doesn't give you a balanced description of what your options are, how can you even vote?

This is downright corruption - Just as wrong as the kind that happens China, only a lot more sophisticated.

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