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Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

nytimes.com

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Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#71

Post by jjuel »

matwood wrote: post #44
icc97 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely agree. The article appears to be painting a very dark picture that 91% don't want the candidates. Where as this is just stating the obvious of what happens in every country that first puts forward a leader of a party that is contending to win the overall election.

It is quite an interesting time. My liberal friends are all irked because Bernie got hosed by the DNC. My conservative friends are irked because the RNC did not do more to stop Trump. Talk about a role reversal with the party of the people and the party of the establishment. Personally, I see so many problems with both candidates that it makes me sick that I have to vote for the least worst one.

Do you though? There are more than 2 candidates...

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#72

Post by xlxlxlx »

matwood wrote: post #44
icc97 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely agree. The article appears to be painting a very dark picture that 91% don't want the candidates. Where as this is just stating the obvious of what happens in every country that first puts forward a leader of a party that is contending to win the overall election.

It is quite an interesting time. My liberal friends are all irked because Bernie got hosed by the DNC. My conservative friends are irked because the RNC did not do more to stop Trump. Talk about a role reversal with the party of the people and the party of the establishment. Personally, I see so many problems with both candidates that it makes me sick that I have to vote for the least worst one.

Why do you feel you have to vote for one of the two?

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#73

Post by shah_s »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #15
rwmj wrote: post #7

As I understand it, everyone could choose nominees (assuming you can hold your nose and join one of the two major US parties), so this isn't really interesting news? The only sad bit from my point of view is the number of disenfranchised felons.

In states that have caucuses it can be fairly tough for people working full-time jobs to attend them. I don't think that represents a large share of the popular vote, but it is a barrier to participation that requires more than holding one's nose to overcome.

That's just an excuse. There is early voting and most, if not all states, legally mandate that a company give time off to employees to go vote.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#74

Post by anthony_romeo »

awesomerobot wrote: post #29

Our voting system really needs to change, it's completely absurd that it hasn't just moved to a weekend or received special treatment as holidays.

I agree!

If I recall, employers are required to allow some time-off during the day for people to vote. Practically, however, this doesn't happen because a: some districts don't have nearly enough polling places and staff, resulting in hours-long wait times (around where I live, I've never had this problem, but it's a real issue in other (often more poverty-stricken) areas), and b: not many low-wage workers are willing to 'rock the boat' with their employer and would rather just not vote than face any hassle or retaliation.

At the very least, we need smoother process where people can go to their city hall and vote over a period of a week or so, or vote by mail/online

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#76

Post by pessimizer »

icc97 wrote: post #27
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #18

What astounds me the most is that party membership in the United States is actually very high compared to most other countries (except for India). Fewer than 200,000 Australians would currently be members of any political party - representing less than 1.5% of the total voters (around 14 million) - and that's being very generous with estimates of party membership figures. Most AFL football clubs would have more membe…

I definitely agree. The article appears to be painting a very dark picture that 91% don't want the candidates. Where as this is just stating the obvious of what happens in every country that first puts forward a leader of a party that is contending to win the overall election.

According to the polls, it's more like 60-65%. Only somewhat fewer than 70-80% would be willing to vote for either, and less than half of those who would vote for either candidate are voting in support of that candidate, rather than in disgust with the other one.

The picture is dark. Voters are choosing between dynastic plutocracy and a carnival barker.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#77

Post by tanderson92 »

shah_s wrote: post #73
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In states that have caucuses it can be fairly tough for people working full-time jobs to attend them. I don't think that represents a large share of the popular vote, but it is a barrier to participation that requires more than holding one's nose to overcome.

That's just an excuse. There is early voting and most, if not all states, legally mandate that a company give time off to employees to go vote.

Many caucuses disallow early voting and require a physical presence.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#78

Post by chrisseaton »

tanderson92 wrote: post #70
chrisseaton wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right well that does sound like unfair behaviour, but it's not a legally enforced monopoly is it? Which is what was claimed.

I mean, apart from how they used (abused) the legal system to ensure their monopoly on voters continued, no there is no legally enforced monopoly...

I think 'legal monopoly' implies that there is some legal ruling which enforces the monopoly. You said yourself that what they are doing is an abuse. Just because it involves lawyers doesn't make it 'legal'.

But ultimately the fact that there are independents on ballot papers proves clearly that there is no monopoly, legal or otherwise, by any definition at all.

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#79

Post by meritt »

the_duke wrote: post #53
msravi wrote: post #16

I didn't know that felons weren't allowed to vote in the US - this was news to me. Looks like it varies by state: http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...

This really shocked me when I found out about it a few years ago. According to this statistic [1], 2.5 % of the electorate is disenfranchised. 2.5% is a HUGE amount for a 2 party system with elections often being very tight. This is somewhat less severe due to fellons probably belonging to demographics less inclined to vote, but it's still a large number. [1] http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID…

Less inclined? Felons are disproportionately black and black people overwhelmingly vote democrat. There's a reason the red-states are the ones with the strictest felon-voting regulations: They don't want non-whites voting.

Take a look at the North Carolina Voter ID law that was just overturned if you need additional everyday evidence: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/politics/north-carolina-voter-...

Re: Only 9% of America Chose Trump and Clinton as the Nominees

#80

Post by matwood »

jjuel wrote: post #71
matwood wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite an interesting time. My liberal friends are all irked because Bernie got hosed by the DNC. My conservative friends are irked because the RNC did not do more to stop Trump. Talk about a role reversal with the party of the people and the party of the establishment. Personally, I see so many problems with both candidates that it makes me sick that I have to vote for the least worst one.

Do you though? There are more than 2 candidates...

Of all of the candidates only two have a chance of winning. If I vote for someone other than those two, the one that I think is the worst may get elected.
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