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Disrupting Uber

jacobinmag.com

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Re: Disrupting Uber

#171

Post by mahyarm »

thatsso1999 wrote: post #145
Kalium wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers at REI get sub-$12/hr. REI is structurally and technically a co-op. They are just a co-op that does not exhibit the benefits of a co-op that Jacobin would suggest will flow from being a co-op. If it's structured like a co-op and exhibits none of the benefits of a co-op, what's been gained? I'm saying that co-ops generally have to sacrifice at least one of: structure, functionality, scalability.

REI is a consumer-owned co-op, not a worker-owned one. The entire co-op is designed around saving consumers money, not making the workers more. So yes, REI does deliver the benefits of a co-op to its owners - high-quality goods at a lower price than they would be unable otherwise be able to get. This is the entire point of a consumer co-op. Workers can also be member-owners of the co-op, and frequently are, but the b…

So whats the difference between a co-op and a stockholder organization? Is it a stockholder organization with 1 stock unit = 1 member and you can issue stock for each new member?

Re: Disrupting Uber

#172

Post by mahyarm »

davidf18 wrote: post #105
valhalla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely. Uber's inception/success was partly because of existing taxi services' "barriers to entry". Medallions were worth about $1 million each when Uber started in NYC ( http://bloom.bg/2aCEeQA ). That's a textbook case of an economic rent. Taxi service was often discriminatory in NYC and other cities: taxi drivers often refuse to pick up black passengers assuming they won't pay once they reach their…

>> I disagree completely. Uber's inception/success was partly because of existing taxi services' "barriers to entry". Medallions were worth about $1 million each when Uber started in NYC ( http://bloom.bg/2aCEeQA ). That's a textbook case of an economic rent. I live in NYC and if you look at my other posts to this article, you'll see I made the point that before Uber/Lyft the medallions went for $1.2 million. Still,…

Most of the uber price goes to the driver. So higher prices means more money for the driver. Since NYC is a more expensive place to live, and people have more money, you have to charge higher prices to get enough drivers to drive.

Make NYC as cheap as new mexico to live in, and you will see new mexico prices.

Re: Disrupting Uber

#174

Post by neves »

The greatest problem of coops is that they don't have any incentive of getting rid of riders. With the feedback in Uber, an abusive driver would be kicked off soon. I'm tired of taxi drivers that don't take me where I want. I never had this problem with Uber.

Re: Disrupting Uber

#176

Post by fineIllregister »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #79
svanderbleek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article more carefully, "they might be willing to switch to a co-op model that offers a cheaper price and solid service". A co-op can have lower prices and pay it's members more because they don't have to funnel profits to support the bloat of a central corporation like Uber.

You're right, I missed that line. But I also don't believe that prices would go down in a co-op model because individual drivers don't see the big picture. It seems like a few lines later, it says: By turning to co-op apps, drivers can retain the flexibility of working under a model like Uber’s while also having a say in their own wages and conditions. If the workers have a "say" in their own wages that means increas…

Why doesn't Uber just raise prices, unconditionally? The same reason co-ops won't: competition.

Re: Disrupting Uber

#177

Post by malandrew »

thatsso1999 wrote: post #145
Kalium wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers at REI get sub-$12/hr. REI is structurally and technically a co-op. They are just a co-op that does not exhibit the benefits of a co-op that Jacobin would suggest will flow from being a co-op. If it's structured like a co-op and exhibits none of the benefits of a co-op, what's been gained? I'm saying that co-ops generally have to sacrifice at least one of: structure, functionality, scalability.

REI is a consumer-owned co-op, not a worker-owned one. The entire co-op is designed around saving consumers money, not making the workers more. So yes, REI does deliver the benefits of a co-op to its owners - high-quality goods at a lower price than they would be unable otherwise be able to get. This is the entire point of a consumer co-op. Workers can also be member-owners of the co-op, and frequently are, but the b…

But the prices aren't actually lower than what can be had elsewhere even with the dividend you get back each year. The primary benefits of REI is how easy it is to return products you don't like or don't have a need for and the fact that you can get a product the same day if you live near one.

Re: Disrupting Uber

#178

Post by harryh »

honkhonkpants wrote: post #138
rgbrgb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drivers feel like their services are worth a lot, and passengers simply don't believe it That's an interesting issue. We see the same thing in real estate -- seller's think their homes are worth way more than anyone will pay for them. I think this is one of the reasons For Sale By Owner (skipping realtor fees) hasn't taken off yet in the US. The FSBO seller will price too high, the home will sit on market for a whi…

But the problem with Uber is not that sellers are listing too high, it's that Uber keeps jacking up the spread. This is not a true functioning marketplace because the buyers and sellers don't have good information. Only the market maker itself has all the information. Also it isn't really true that Uber lowers prices for riders when they lower prices for drivers. Uber practices active price discrimination to discover…

> Uber practices active price discrimination to discover the highest price a rider will pay

Wait really? Has this been written about? That would be very interesting!

Re: Disrupting Uber

#179

Post by alecdbrooks »

free2rhyme214 wrote: post #175

Vic Vaiana is naive. Co-op apps aren't 10X better than Uber so it's unlikely people will download them, let alone get people to switch from Uber and retain them long term.

I don't think the barrier is nearly that high. I could see people downloading co-op apps if they hear that they have more drivers or better drivers. Getting to that part is difficult, sure, but not out-of-hand impossible.

Re: Disrupting Uber

#180

Post by artrlee »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #63

Good luck with the co-op idea. The problem is that drivers feel like their services are worth a lot, and passengers simply don't believe it. The reason why Uber is a success is that they created new demand by dropping prices. Everyone I know, including myself, would never have taken an Uber as frequently as we do if the prices were as high as taxis. You can't replicate this unless you keep pushing prices down, and th…

In Hong Kong taxi drivers operate private networks known as "80% taxi's". You'll see many taxi's with multiple phones in them with different drivers operating on a few networks.

http://hk-magazine.com/article/inside-hk/mr-know-it-all/1145...

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