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iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

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Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#31

Post by subway »

Endy wrote: post #28
niftich wrote: post #12

This seems to be making the point that using an iPad is a 'badge of pride' because it's 'challenging'; trying to make the point that Linux is also difficult to use. Except, it's not the same type of challenge at all. Linux usability can actually be pretty good, but it's dependent on familiarity, the desktop environment, the distro, the choice of installed applications; everything is customizable, and making most of t…

Except that to those of us who cut our teeth on DOS & Windows, and grew to the point that going away from the GUI was either the mark of doing something the hard way or because of a specific failure, *nix presents a vastly different working paradigm. Not to mention compatibility issues and other general issues.

I grew up on DOS and Windows, and never felt that way. The console was always for when I ran into limitations imposed by whatever GUI I was in.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#32

Post by Nadya »

wtbob wrote: post #26

I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999, and as my sole desktop since 2000. It's not challenging, it just works. I won't say that there are never challenges, but they are rare and — unlike Windows and macOS — if I search a little I'll find an answer and am able to bend the OS to my will.

I disagree entirely - as someone who has dual-booted w/ Linux since 2002.

1) Driver issues (becoming less of a problem as time goes on) but it used to be a headache even for tech-savvy people to get their drivers to "just work" and so help you god when you decided to update...

2) While a large majority of users need little less than a working internet browser - there is a large niche for gaming that has only recently started to be supported by developers on Linux distros - Steam only in recent years. Likewise for many professional niches - the software is developed for Windows/Mac and may or may not support Linux at all.

3) UX of many things is either missing or lackluster. This has made great strides in the past 5ish years but many things still rely on users having at least some knowledge about config files and knowing their way around a command prompt. At the least, RTFM. All are arcane black magic to many computer users.

Not to mention, package what-nows? sudo?

It isn't user-friendly in the least for the common user. It's powerful and "not too hard to Google a few things" for more tech-savvy users, but tech-savvy users aren't most users.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#33

Post by likeclockwork »

Endy wrote: post #28
niftich wrote: post #12

This seems to be making the point that using an iPad is a 'badge of pride' because it's 'challenging'; trying to make the point that Linux is also difficult to use. Except, it's not the same type of challenge at all. Linux usability can actually be pretty good, but it's dependent on familiarity, the desktop environment, the distro, the choice of installed applications; everything is customizable, and making most of t…

Except that to those of us who cut our teeth on DOS & Windows, and grew to the point that going away from the GUI was either the mark of doing something the hard way or because of a specific failure, *nix presents a vastly different working paradigm. Not to mention compatibility issues and other general issues.

When you say that "going away from the GUI was either the mark of doing something the hard way or because of a specific failure", it's true about windows because the windows command line was basically unsupported territory.

The Windows command line ecosystem was a stagnant ghetto for a long time.

You had to use an uncomfortable and ugly program to access it and the environment itself barely moved from DOS.

PowerShell was the first real progress in a long time and now they've arrived at 'lets just run bash on windows'.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#34

Post by jdbernard »

> See, Linux users don’t care how much easier we say it is in our non-Linux worlds. Sure, they say it’s because of open access and free as in scotch ale and yadda yadda yadda, but really? They like the challenge. Figuring out how to do what they used to do on a Mac or Windows PC is part of the allure.

Sigh... This again? Figuring out how to do things is not part of the allure. Linux is my native ecosystem. I never have to "figure out how to do what they used to do on a Mac or Windows PC." It's the other way around: I have to figure out how to do what I normally do on Linux elsewhere, and very often the answer is, "You can't do it, " because Windows and Mac don't provide the same level of customization. Many of my regular workflows are just not possible on Windows/Mac.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#35

Post by coldtea »

wtbob wrote: post #26

I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999, and as my sole desktop since 2000. It's not challenging, it just works. I won't say that there are never challenges, but they are rare and — unlike Windows and macOS — if I search a little I'll find an answer and am able to bend the OS to my will.

>I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999

Isn't that fact a huge tell-sign that perhaps you're not the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would be challenging?

You speak of 2000, but historically even people like ESR, Linus Torvalds, JWZ etc have found Linux bad at usability and ease of installation.

Of course people used to tinker to e.g. get 3D working, or with basic setups that don't need anything special driver-wise, won't notice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/linux-torvalds-on-linux-dist... https://plus.google.com/115250422803614415116/posts/hMT5kW8L... http://gensho.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/... http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/06/that-was-in-fact-the-final-... https://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linux.html

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#36

Post by bdcravens »

teach wrote: post #29
mikeash wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's rather silly. Desktop Linux is like having a machine shop. It's a steep learning curve, but you can do amazing things. Advanced tasks on the iPad is like a dancing bear: it's impressive that it can even be done, but the actual dancing sucks.

I love the dancing bear analogy, but I'd argue that Linux on the desktop isn't a difficult learning curve. Not in 2016, anyway. The Linux desktop is different than Windows 10 or the MacOS, but it isn't harder, IMO.

Yeah, in 2016 you don't need to configure X or edit CHAP scripts. I think some people still hang on the allure of days gone by.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#37

Post by mark_l_watson »

I think the author is correct that some people use an iPad as a badge of honor - I am a little guilty of this.

Both my iPad mini 4 and iPad Pro are fine for writing books in markdown, using an online publishing platform like leanpub, performing research and note taking, accessing servers via SSH terms, and consuming content. For work, the trick is getting really fast at switching between apps and have a good memory when you can't see things side by side.

Where they fall short is in programming. I do a lot of work on remote servers and have SSH + term + Emacs set up nicely, but sometimes I really need IDEs like IntelliJ or RubyMine to be really productive programming. So, I keep a few Ubuntu laptops around.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#38

Post by rahoulb »

xlayn wrote: post #27

From the creators of "PC is dead, long live IOS" Remind me again the argument for using the ipad instead of a... say mac air... or the macbook? 1 pound? 2? Sure there are some people for which this is critical... like the guy who is 40 pounds overweight but buys a new 10000$ new road bike because it's 1 pound lighter...

11 hour battery life, built in SIM card, drawing UI sketches for clients (not an Air though, I have a pro)

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#39

Post by Laforet »

VLM wrote: post #16

Its fun just to try and list the cultural clashes in the article, like the linked author tried to include as many as possible. My school age kids use ipads as their primary computer at school and that carries over into home use. No matter what the linked article's author experienced as a professional journalist as "normal", to today's kids the ipad will be the new "normal". Maybe they'll be a human interest article i…

The linked post not really about hardware or UI design but how per app sandboxing and lack of a shared local FS has restricted productivity on the iPad pro.

I've always likened iOS to living in a bunch of lavishly outfitted tents: they look great and are really comfortable. However each tent could only be of a certain size since there is no solid foundation and when the heavens decide to rain it is impossible to go from your bedroom to the kitchen without getting wet. The other OS may be an ugly Stalinist house with very small windows and unpolished concrete floor, but they are objectively better at serving the purpose of in door dwelling I.e. shielding people from the elements.

Re: iPad-only is the new desktop Linux

#40

Post by wutbrodo »

mikeash wrote: post #25
niftich wrote: post #12

This seems to be making the point that using an iPad is a 'badge of pride' because it's 'challenging'; trying to make the point that Linux is also difficult to use. Except, it's not the same type of challenge at all. Linux usability can actually be pretty good, but it's dependent on familiarity, the desktop environment, the distro, the choice of installed applications; everything is customizable, and making most of t…

Yes, it's rather silly. Desktop Linux is like having a machine shop. It's a steep learning curve, but you can do amazing things. Advanced tasks on the iPad is like a dancing bear: it's impressive that it can even be done, but the actual dancing sucks.

> Desktop Linux is like having a machine shop. It's a steep learning curve, but you can do amazing things.

IME, the learning curve for Linux (post-installation, at least) is waaaay less steep than Windows. When I went off to college and got tired of my Dad calling me every few days with another question or concern about his Windows computer, I switched him to Linux Mint and haven't been bugged since. It's too much to expect of the average user to use a Windows computer: constant fears of malware, a system tray polluted with two dozen startup programs that they didn't consent to, frankly idiotic design decisions like "Let's install updates and refuse to turn off for ten minutes, regardless of whether this laptop needs to be shoved into a backpack right now".

The main difficulty in desktop Linux is hardware compatibility stuff, but IME that mostly boils down to a couple careful decisions right at the beginning. I've had something like four Thinkpads over the last ~10 years and I've yet to have hardware problems of any significance. People occasionally comment that it's ridiculous to have to constrain one's hardware choices based on the OS they want to use, but that's pretty much exactly what many people do for Macs, so I don't think it's all that weird (and certainly worth it).

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