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Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

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Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#181

Post by DefaultUserHN »

MollyR wrote: post #61
ethanbond wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there are a lot factors. Time spent together skyrocketing, financial instability causing stress, and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly. Becoming unemployed is immensely turbulent in pretty much every way.

I was wondering why men tie their identity to employment so much. Is it because society expects them to be providers, and ridicules men who don't ?

>Is it because society expects them to be providers, and ridicules men who don't ?

No. It's because his starving kids expect their father to bring home the food. Because how else are his kids suppose to get food?

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#182

Post by DefaultUserHN »

ethanbond wrote: post #157
oldmanjay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a vast difference between ridiculing something and not accepting it on faith solely because very passionate people make assertions about it.

Sure, but that's my point. I think a lot of men on here have probably felt this effect. If it's not from "the patriarchy," or something similar by a different name, then what is it from? You don't have to think that, say, women's fashion changes faster than men's fashion because "the patriarchy!" , but it takes some serious aloofness not to see that male dominance in society trickles down to some very strange places…

>...that a man's employment status is the largest factor in his marital success.

Well, if he can't provide for his kids, then what's the point of staying married to him? For love? Love can't feed your starving kids. Might as well go remarry some other dude who are competent enough to provide for your kids. Unless of course, you want to take the easy route and rely on government food stamps. Or, be those like stressed out single mom who has to do everything by herself, single handily doing BOTH the jobs of a man and a woman.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#183

Post by DefaultUserHN »

tomp wrote: post #161
gizmo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language evolves so words take on new meanings all the time. It's tedious to invent new words for everything, so you have to use context to figure out which definition is being used. This is completely standard, so I don't see why this is suddenly a problem when it comes to feminist terminology. Today's society is one where men make most of the laws, own most of the property, earn most of the money, commit the most v…

Most of those points are moot. Women are > 50% of the population, so they could choose different lawmakers. Men work more, so it seems fair that they earn more money. More violence is caused by biology so we can't really help that (consequently, men also receive the majority of punishment), but statistics say that (1) men are also more often victims of violence, and (2) e.g. in relationships, violence is equally like…

On the topic of ownership of property, yes, the guy owns the property. That is, until she divorce him, then she owns half his properties. LOL.

In other word, she already owned half his property, he just didn't realized it until she divorced him. Hahaha.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#184

Post by DefaultUserHN »

ethanbond wrote: post #155
tomp wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN ridicules the notion of patriarchy because the word itself implies it's somehow men's fault. Which it isn't. Social toles are enforced by most of the society, so we might as well call it "matriarchy", but that would piss feminists off, so we don't.

I don't think there's that implication at all. I think what's happening is that this component of patriarchy isn't really a rallying point for many people. That is, there are a lot of people who are vocally upset about other components of patriarchy in which men actually are the primary antagonists, e.g. rape culture. That does not, however, imply that man are the antagonists, nor that women are the victims of every…

>A man shouldn't feel obligated to be masculine, nor a provider, nor a protector, nor anything he doesn't want to be.

Well, if a man doesn't want to provide for his kids, then who should provide for his kids? Should a man force his wife to provide for his kids while he sits around doing nothing? Or should a man force the government to provide for his kids?

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#185

Post by DefaultUserHN »

DominikR wrote: post #58
ethanbond wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there are a lot factors. Time spent together skyrocketing, financial instability causing stress, and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly. Becoming unemployed is immensely turbulent in pretty much every way.

> and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly At least this part is nothing new. Men have always (up until now and I'd argue that this is still true today) tied their identity, masculinity and even self-worth as a human being to their profession as society expected men contribute the necessary resources to their families in order to support wife & children. If a man couldn't prov…

Will your kids still love you even though you can't provide for them? Will they look down on you because they're starving and you are not competent enough to feed them?

When they look around, they see other dads being able to feed their own kids, and they ask themselves, "Why is it that my dad can not feed them?" Will your kids look down on you because of this?

Is the patriarchy forcing men to tie their identity to their ability to provide for their own kids?

Or do men understands naturally that if they can't provide for their kids, then they must be pretty incompetent, and then they feels bad about it, naturally, because they love their kids. And then their kids look down on them, because "all the other dads can feed their children, when can't my dad feed me?"

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#186

Post by tomp »

DefaultUserHN wrote: post #184
ethanbond wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's that implication at all. I think what's happening is that this component of patriarchy isn't really a rallying point for many people. That is, there are a lot of people who are vocally upset about other components of patriarchy in which men actually are the primary antagonists, e.g. rape culture. That does not, however, imply that man are the antagonists, nor that women are the victims of every…

>A man shouldn't feel obligated to be masculine, nor a provider, nor a protector, nor anything he doesn't want to be. Well, if a man doesn't want to provide for his kids, then who should provide for his kids? Should a man force his wife to provide for his kids while he sits around doing nothing? Or should a man force the government to provide for his kids?

Other options include (1) not having kids, and (2) finding a partner (possibly a woman) who's willing to provide.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#187

Post by cname »

cperciva wrote: post #77
cname wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aiming STEM programs at girls isn't sexist. That just isn't what "sexist" means. Those programs exist to correct an imbalance caused by actual sexism.

Aiming STEM programs at girls isn't sexist. That just isn't what "sexist" means. To the contrary, it perfectly fits the dictionary definition: Discrimination on the basis of gender. It happens to be a form of discrimination which is (generally) considered to be acceptable since it is aiming to ameliorate a disadvantaged group; but it is discrimination nonetheless. The relevant question isn't "is this sexist", but rat…

You might say that programs that encourage girls are "discriminatory" in some pedantic sense, but they don't keep boys from learning about math and science, nor do they discourage boys from going into STEM fields.

The difference between this and actual sexism is that sexism discourages and systematically excludes people, typically girls/women, based on gender. Programs that target girls do nothing at all to discourage boys, because no one is saying, "These kinds of activities, careers, etc are only for girls now."

Generally speaking, when any disadvantaged group gets together to discuss issues and take action on issues affecting them, they are not being racist, sexist, etc.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#188

Post by [deleted] »

zepolen wrote: post #99
lmmlzxx wrote: post #91

I'm not working right now and my wife is supporting me. To be brief, I'm taking time to be healthier mentally and my wife can see that I'm making a concerted effort. I let her know frequently how much I appreciate it, and I'm also accomplishing a lot and putting myself in a position to be successful again in the near future. I've supported her financially at times in the past as well. Because of this, we're actually…

constantly using?

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