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Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

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Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#71

Post by kaishiro »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #67
kaishiro wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I was going to just let this one go, I really was. But, you should know that stating opinion as if it were fact with regard to one's truthfulness, a la "Dozens of your connections did not say that..." is an incredibly rude thing to say. You have no earthly idea who I am, who my friends are, and most certainly are not privy to the conversations we've had. While this may be painful to hear, you are not the sole bas…

The experience of 80% of credit card readers being defective is so statistically anomalous that the only reasonable thing to do if someone claims it is to disbelieve them. Unless they have hard evidence, you are perfectly justified to say, you know what, that's just too absurdly far-fetched to give it credit. Same thing if someone says literally zero taxis they have ever used have been in clean condition. That's a ma…

"I'm trying to say that the connections whose informal opinions you cite as backup couldn't possibly have said something as extreme as what the other people of this thread are saying."

The mental gymnastics required to follow your train of thought are just astounding. You're argument here seems to be that the opinions of my friends and family can't possibly match with what other people, not even myself have said in a completely different part of this thread. I mean, I guess I agree? What a truly bizarre statement.

"I'm not sure how to explain it."

On this point, we are in complete agreement.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#72

Post by p4wnc6 »

kaishiro wrote: post #71
p4wnc6 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience of 80% of credit card readers being defective is so statistically anomalous that the only reasonable thing to do if someone claims it is to disbelieve them. Unless they have hard evidence, you are perfectly justified to say, you know what, that's just too absurdly far-fetched to give it credit. Same thing if someone says literally zero taxis they have ever used have been in clean condition. That's a ma…

"I'm trying to say that the connections whose informal opinions you cite as backup couldn't possibly have said something as extreme as what the other people of this thread are saying." The mental gymnastics required to follow your train of thought are just astounding. You're argument here seems to be that the opinions of my friends and family can't possibly match with what other people, not even myself have said in a…

You cited the opinions of connections to backup your general feeling that taxi service is bad.

Is it your opinion, or the consensus opinion of your connections, that 80% of the time the card reader is broken, or that the percentage of taxis which are clean is near 0 (or some other claim similar to these)?

If you're not making claims of that extremity, then whatever you are talking about isn't very related to what anyone else here has said, and depending on the specifics, I may even agree with you, but it wouldn't be relevant to a thread where the primary claim that started the disussion is that taxi service is overwhelmingly always unbelievably bad.

If you are making claims of that extremity, then I don't believe them, and feel that disbelieving them is simply a matter of the claims being too much of an outlier to deserve any serious plausibility.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#73

Post by kaishiro »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #67
kaishiro wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I was going to just let this one go, I really was. But, you should know that stating opinion as if it were fact with regard to one's truthfulness, a la "Dozens of your connections did not say that..." is an incredibly rude thing to say. You have no earthly idea who I am, who my friends are, and most certainly are not privy to the conversations we've had. While this may be painful to hear, you are not the sole bas…

The experience of 80% of credit card readers being defective is so statistically anomalous that the only reasonable thing to do if someone claims it is to disbelieve them. Unless they have hard evidence, you are perfectly justified to say, you know what, that's just too absurdly far-fetched to give it credit. Same thing if someone says literally zero taxis they have ever used have been in clean condition. That's a ma…

Well, I still do believe you, because I don't make it a habit of calling a person a liar with no verifiable proof to the contrary.

Good luck with everything.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#74

Post by p4wnc6 »

kaishiro wrote: post #73
p4wnc6 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience of 80% of credit card readers being defective is so statistically anomalous that the only reasonable thing to do if someone claims it is to disbelieve them. Unless they have hard evidence, you are perfectly justified to say, you know what, that's just too absurdly far-fetched to give it credit. Same thing if someone says literally zero taxis they have ever used have been in clean condition. That's a ma…

Well, I still do believe you, because I don't make it a habit of calling a person a liar with no verifiable proof to the contrary. Good luck with everything.

Just as a total aside, sometimes the 'reply' link doesn't appear beneath a comment, especially if it is new. If you click on the permalink for that comment (the time next to the commenter's username), it will take you to a page for just that comment, and will have a box for replying.

I only mention it because I believe you are replying to comments below, but by making replies to an earlier comment instead of the actual comment you are replying to -- and sometimes this is why.

I've definitely done that before, and thought perhaps it was a reply limit from HN or something (which can happen).

> I don't make it a habit of calling a person a liar with no verifiable proof to the contrary.

This is an unfair mischaracterization of what I've said.

If someone makes an extraordinary claim and has no evidence, you probably shouldn't just believe it. Choosing not to believe it based on a reasonable statistical premise (e.g. the failure rate of card readers is not high enough such that 80% of them are always broken) is perfectly valid, and is not impolite or rude. It's not at all the same thing as "calling them a liar." The burden of proof is on the party making extraordinary claims.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#75

Post by kaishiro »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #74
kaishiro wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I still do believe you, because I don't make it a habit of calling a person a liar with no verifiable proof to the contrary. Good luck with everything.

Just as a total aside, sometimes the 'reply' link doesn't appear beneath a comment, especially if it is new. If you click on the permalink for that comment (the time next to the commenter's username), it will take you to a page for just that comment, and will have a box for replying. I only mention it because I believe you are replying to comments below, but by making replies to an earlier comment instead of the actu…

First off, I actually appreciate that - I always just assumed it was a nesting limit!

That aside, honest question, because I truly don't understand. You've said things like "I never once experienced a broken credit card machine" and "they were always early and helped me with my bags". I find these claims equally as fantastic as the claims that you seem to disregard from others (not myself) re: this 80% figure. I honestly, truly do not believe that every cab you ever called in 8 years was early. Moreso, I find it very difficult to believe that you believe that this is normal.

So, all this being said, why is it that you feel that your stance on that end of the spectrum is right, and others are wrong. Where is your evidence (not anecdotal), for passing the burden of proof for the extraordinary claims you're making?

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#76

Post by p4wnc6 »

kaishiro wrote: post #75
p4wnc6 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a total aside, sometimes the 'reply' link doesn't appear beneath a comment, especially if it is new. If you click on the permalink for that comment (the time next to the commenter's username), it will take you to a page for just that comment, and will have a box for replying. I only mention it because I believe you are replying to comments below, but by making replies to an earlier comment instead of the actu…

First off, I actually appreciate that - I always just assumed it was a nesting limit! That aside, honest question, because I truly don't understand. You've said things like "I never once experienced a broken credit card machine" and "they were always early and helped me with my bags". I find these claims equally as fantastic as the claims that you seem to disregard from others (not myself) re: this 80% figure. I hone…

Well the failure rate of the machines is super low, so experiencing nearly zero broken card machines would be about expected. The outcome of never experiencing a broken one certainly is rare, as you say, but it's nowhere near the astronomical claim made elsewhere of an 80% failure rate.

I'm not asking anyone to believe that zero card readers are broken. I'm only saying I never experienced a broken one, and never experiencing a broken one isn't that weird because the failure rate is low.

Someone saying that 80% of the time the reader is broken is making an extremely different type of claim, not really even comparable with my analogous claim of not ever experiencing a broken one. While my experience might also differ from average, it is orders of magnitude closer to average than someone happening to experience a broken one 80% of the time.

I'm not sure what to say about the bags comment. Every time I've ever gotten a cab to or from any airport anywhere, from Boston to Hong Kong, the driver helped me with bags if I had them. And all the other drivers helped all the other people in line too.

Maybe you're referring to the fact that I always experienced them coming early -- yes this could be highly variable. My anecdotes are probably no more valuable than others here on that point, mostly because nobody here extended the outrageously extreme claims they made (80% card reader failure, effectively zero clean taxis ever) into the topic of how late taxis are, though they might have (e.g. someone possibly saying another statistically unbelievable thing like 'taxis are always 30 minutes late' or '90% of the time they don't even show up' or something).

Keep in mind that being early only applied to taxis I scheduled from home to the airport. I never called ahead to arrange a taxi except when going to the airport, so those are the only ones which could have possibly been early or late.

The majority of cabs I ever took were cabs I just hailed on the street or at a taxi stand.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#77

Post by akshatpradhan »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #57
jazzyk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clean, modern taxi, polite driver? In Boston, MA? You must be kidding, sir. Before Uber, every cab I took was smelly, the cars were late 1970s models, sour drivers, etc. Cabs have gotten a lot better, thanks to Uber.

No, I wasn't kidding. My cab experiences in Boston, going back to 2008, well before any Uber competition can apply, have always been good -- perfectly normal with no serious complaints. I'm not saying the cab drivers poured me a glass of champagne or something, just that they had clean, newer cars with functioning card readers, they were on time, and I didn't stand in very long lines except a few times at the airport…

>It's crazy that people are so adamant to do social engineering for Uber that they won't even agree to entirely uncontroversial claims, like most taxis in Boston are clean or have functioning card readers -- things which are indisputably accurate.

I'm from Boston. I took a ride from Brighton to Hynes. The cab driver goes through Storrow Dr and he skips the Kenmore exit to get to Hynes. I think he's going to take the Beacon Hill exit and he skips that too.

I asked him why he didn't take the exit and he said, "Oh I thought you wanted to go to the Prudential."

Prudential is the same place as Hynes. The taxi takes me all the way up Storrow to I-93 then to I-90 west finally taking the Copley exit back to Hynes.

My bill ended up $45 from Brighton to Hynes.

I have countless horror stories of cabs not picking me up because the distance was too short (South end to Fenway is too short), credit card machines "not working" so it's cash only, cabs not showing up at all or extremely late.

I even have a cab scam story in Baltimore which I commented about here on HN.

Uber has questionable ethics, but at least I don't have to deal with frustrations.

I've lived in New Englad over a decade so this is my anecdotal experience with Boston cab drivers.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#78

Post by seibelj »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #55
subway wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one will believe your claim of consistent reliable service without proof. The taxi industry has fucked its own reputation quite thoroughly.

No, the taxi services (in Boston, anyway, which qualifies all of my comments) have an average-to-good reputation. Uber tries to steer opinion against it, but since people have perfectly fine experiences with taxis most of the time, that doesn't work. Also, there is no singular reputation that represents all taxi services. Your idea that all taxi services have a bad reputation only further makes your argument unbeliev…

Holy shit - I just read this entire thread. The taxis services in Boston "have an average-to-good reputation"? What planet are you living on? Yeah, most of the time it can be OK, but the fact that everyone who regularly takes cabs in Boston has some horror story, shows you just how bad the situation is (or was, rather, thanks to Uber).

By your own admission, you live(d) in Cambridge, which is not Boston! Completely different cab companies, rules, medallions, etc. I can't say shit about it up there. But in Boston, where I've lived for over a decade, it totally sucks! You are out of you god damn mind! Stop talking about things you don't know! As your mass amount of down votes show, you are talking out of your ass, so don't even bother.

As we say in Boston, get the fuck outta here with that shit, kid! Taxis are the WORST

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#79

Post by abritinthebay »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #68
eropple wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine why you're getting a sardonic and rude response . Maybe it's because insulting, silly, ad hominem nonsense that you're throwing at me? Most taxi experiences I've had are strictly worse than the equivalent in any of the ride-sharing systems available in Boston. Strictly worse. They're more expensive, the supply is more variable, the drivers are at best a push, and events that cannot happen in Uber/Lyft…

I'm really at a loss as to seeing any reply to you that I've made that is insulting, silly, or ad hominem. In re-reading them all, I don't see that. The claims made in the thread were that something like 80% of taxis in Boston have defective card readers, and that literally only a single taxi used was clean (the rest were not of acceptable cleanliness). These are ridiculous, exceptional claims that should be complete…

> I'm really at a loss as to seeing any reply to you that I've made that is insulting, silly, or ad hominem

I say this with kindness: then you don't understand that you're doing it. That's ok... but you are.

Re: Uber Hasn't Had an Effect on Drunken-Driving Deaths, Study Finds

#80

Post by abritinthebay »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #53
abritinthebay wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What everyone is telling you is that your experience is not the "average case"...

No that's what knee-jerk Uber defenders are writing who refuse to grant taxis any credit for being good, useful services. These responses aren't reporting average case experiences with level headed analysis. They are just one-sidedly saying everything is bad about taxis, including "corruption" even, and how thankful they are Uber "disrupted" them, etc. It all reads very much like paid social engineering by Uber. I'm…

> that's what knee-jerk Uber defenders are writing who refuse to grant taxis any credit for being good, useful services.

No, you're missing the point: they understand that it's a useful service. They are just pointing out that the service they provide is now being done better with Uber/Lyft/etc.

> These responses aren't reporting average case experiences with level headed analysis.

They really are. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it not true. You're basically going "I'm not crazy! It's *everyone else that's wrong!"

> It all reads very much like paid social engineering by Uber.

"I'm not crazy! It's a conspiracy I tell you! They're all shills!". Not helping, especially with the half-hearted hedge afterwards that you then back away from instantly with the next line...

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