Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because encrypting a 60Tb/sec data stream in real-time is computationally hard?
There isn't a single 60Tb/sec datastream though so it is quite feasible (and I'd be shocked if people aren't doing it, especially after the post-Snowden rush to MACsec). Undersea cables are DWDM systems where you have N x 10G,40G,100G waves. 100G MACsec is available in merchant silicon and out of the box on switches from Cisco & Arista (off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others). You wouldn't even encrypt the…
America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
51–60 of 121 posts
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
(1) A parabolic antenna is a huge radar target for anyone hunting submarines. (2) A parabolic antenna, or any other very directional antenna, requires a stable platform. Either it's on a huge inflatable raft, or the sub is rigidly attached. Either way, the operation will be noticed. (3) Sacrificial systems in submarine warfare are rare. They exist but, like aircraft launching flares, they draw attention and are there…
> (1) A parabolic antenna is a huge radar target for anyone hunting submarines. I'm not sure if you are suggesting that an antenna would have to be detrimental to the radar cross-section of a submarine or if you are suggesting that you can intercept radio waves from a high directivity antenna. For the former, directional antennas are on all forms of modern day stealth vehicles without compromising the radar cross-sec…
>> from one jet fighter to another. Both of these are not stable platforms.
Fighter aircraft as remarkable stable platforms. They spend 95%+ of their time wings-level, say +/- 5*. And most of the motions of an aircraft are commanded by the pilot, allowing electronics a momentary heads up to make decisions re antennas. Compare that to a tiny raft in even moderate seas, constantly moving in every dimension, where the random motion never, ever, stops. Many a fighter jock has suffered sea sickness.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because encrypting a 60Tb/sec data stream in real-time is computationally hard?
There isn't a single 60Tb/sec datastream though so it is quite feasible (and I'd be shocked if people aren't doing it, especially after the post-Snowden rush to MACsec). Undersea cables are DWDM systems where you have N x 10G,40G,100G waves. 100G MACsec is available in merchant silicon and out of the box on switches from Cisco & Arista (off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others). You wouldn't even encrypt the…
Further, the individual traffic streams in a 10 gigabit per second circuit would be encrypted at layers 4 through 7. Assuming that people are using properly implemented public /private key cryptography, of course.
Even so, the metadata of who is talking to who and traffic flow analysis is very valuable to the NSA.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn't a single 60Tb/sec datastream though so it is quite feasible (and I'd be shocked if people aren't doing it, especially after the post-Snowden rush to MACsec). Undersea cables are DWDM systems where you have N x 10G,40G,100G waves. 100G MACsec is available in merchant silicon and out of the box on switches from Cisco & Arista (off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others). You wouldn't even encrypt the…
Further, the individual traffic streams in a 10 gigabit per second circuit would be encrypted at layers 4 through 7. Assuming that people are using properly implemented public /private key cryptography, of course. Even so, the metadata of who is talking to who and traffic flow analysis is very valuable to the NSA.
That's why link-layer encryption adds value over higher-layer encryption - it also encrypts layer-3+ headers and metadata.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Today's undersea cables are optical. You'd need to splice in, or at least open up a cable to get at the individual fibers to install similar taps. I cannot see how that would be done in the pressurized world of submarines. That's an excellent point but I think they have a way to lift the cable off the seabed and make a splice even though it's hard. NSA are masters of making the impossible work. What I can't figure…
> NSA are masters of making the impossible work. Citation needed. And not Hollywood movies.
It's been well documented that as far back as 1971, the NSA & Navy was tapping cables under the Sea of Okhotsk. Sounds pretty impossible to me.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe the data goes through some friendly countries where we can get to it easier.
Do you think they lay another cable from the tap to some collection point or do they use radio waves? Or maybe they just record the data and then just collect it by a surface ship or a sub every month...
Radios don't work so well underwater. This is why subs have various radio masts that poke above the surface. They stay just below the water with the antennas dry for the most part.
It's be much easier to mess with routing (in secret or not) and capture data at another point.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was going to reply that this was surely nonsense and I've seen the thick cables the size of a man's leg, but as the article says these images we've seen are only for shallow areas and the majority of the cable really is just the size of a marker pen, shielded with just a few millimetres of plastic.
http://mikesenese.com/DOIT/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Unders... ^undersea cables are typically made up of a central fiber line, which look like human hairs in a small tube, and a shell of insulation and copper. You need power to send the signal across the ocean floor and, as we do not generate electricity underwater, all of the current needs to be sent from one end to the other to power all of the repeaters along the…
In normal power distribution, much of the cost is in generating the electricity, and the cable is cheap and readily accessible and you can easily take several truckloads of heavy cable to the many sites.
Undersea cable is different, and I suspect that nobody cares if 99.9% of the power is wasted to heat the power wire as long as enough gets to the repeaters.
Kirchhoff's law says that if your wire is insulated, ask the current that goes in one end comes out the other. The only thing is that you need to provide sufficient voltage to push it through the long wire.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's possible to find the approximate location of a break by looking at its influence on reflections. A double break, as you're suggesting, would eventually be noticed. (If that wasn't possible, then repairing cable breaks would be insanely expensive.)
Right. And if the US has been doing this for a decade or more, you'd think that at least one of the taps would have been discovered.
Discovered by who? I'm pretty sure the CIA/NSA will just "disappear" anyone who tries to report the anomaly.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's possible to find the approximate location of a break by looking at its influence on reflections. A double break, as you're suggesting, would eventually be noticed. (If that wasn't possible, then repairing cable breaks would be insanely expensive.)
Right. And if the US has been doing this for a decade or more, you'd think that at least one of the taps would have been discovered.
I don't doubt the US is capable of splicing - I think a lot of classified research was done to counter the detection of unauthorized taps. However, a huge number of cables pass through friendly countries and it's much easier to negotiate access. Another option is to electronically subvert the network equipment connected to the optic fiber. I imagine cable splicing is done sparingly, or when the easier options are not viable.
Re: America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’ systems
#60>But despite the rising prominence of Russian hackers in this news cycle — and Chinese hackers before that — it's worth pointing out that the United States has grown fairly proficient in cyberspace, too. How am I not surprised that in an article about US espionage the American s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶ media makes sure to remind yet again us how bad, bad, bad the Russians are.
It's more like:
"So you stole emails from a political campaign? That's cool -- remember that conversation with your mistress in 2005? No? We do."