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Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

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Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

#1
A year ago, I asked HN what can I do get an entry job. HN told me to keep on grinding. That I will get lucky. Some HN people offered to look at my resume. I talked to them through email, and they offered advice. I followed their advice.

A year later, I still haven't been able to get any job. Two weeks ago I had an on-site for a position near Philly. Expected salary would be $40K - $50k. I passed the final interview and was told I was one of the best candidates. I was supposed to get an answer today, but it appears I've been ghosted. I've also been ghosted by another company after doing a phone tech interview with the VP.

I'm currently at the 14 month mark unemployed after graduation with a BS degree in CS. I went to a public state school centered between Philly and NYC. I live by Hoboken, Jersey City, and NYC.

Since I've either been ghosted or rejected by everyone so far, I have only one choice left. I managed to pass LaunchCode, then skipped a few steps (since I already have various personal projects and a CS degree), directly into interviewing with a local company. The thing is this will be a $10 - $15/hr internship. While I'm grateful for anything, it scares me to be at this point in time of my career looking forward to a low wage internship.

Everyone says there are jobs everywhere for CS graduates, but it's been so hard for me personally to get anything. I am not as smart as most HN people here. I did not go to an amazing school. But I am passionate and competitive by heart. Computers have been my life. So, what happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

Apology if this thread does not belong here.

Here are a few other things I've done:

1) 2 unpaid websites for a business

2) volunteer programming for nonprofit

3) attend NJ Tech Meetup every month and some others.

4) volunteered PropellerFest in Hoboken

5) worked on two unpaid programs for companies during the interview process (spent a minimum of 2 weeks on each)

Re: Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

#3
I am not as smart as most HN people here.

n.b. A thing I would not suggest overly dwelling on.

If it makes you feel any better, my first job (2004) in a similarly situated city was $12.50 an hour. I was so despondent about the chance of getting a real engineering job that I emigrated, where I landed the princely sum of $30k per year. That is no longer a major economic anchor for me 12 years later. I don't think you should necessarily accept either of these numbers but not the end of the world either way.

It is an unfortunate reality that "zero experience" and "non-zero experience" (for values of experience which generally include "paid" and "production" and "in an obviously software-producing role") are treated differently than each other, so getting that first job is often excessively difficult.

You should probably own your job search, and approach it as if it were a job. You go to your job search in the morning and you leave it in the evening. Your job search is a results-oriented work environment. Despite the fact that your job search doesn't have anyone who will fire you if you e.g. play League of Legends (picking something that I'd worry about for myself, not you) instead of lining up coffee dates, it has similar economic consequences for tradeoffs.

Nobody explicitly tells people this in college, so: sending in your resume to companies and then waiting for callbacks is not the primary way that people get jobs. You should cold approach every person with hiring authority you can identify at a local software company, demonstrate probability of value over email, escalate to a Skype call or coffee date, make a good impression, and then ask whether they know of anyone hiring.

In the short term, you should be shooting for ~10 good, targeted emails a day, ~2 Skype calls a day, 3~5 coffee dates a week, and ~2 requests for escalation to a formal interview a week. At the end of one month of this, you've sent 200 emails, had 40~50 Skype calls, had 10+ coffees, and done 5~10 interviews. If you are not sustaining these numbers, the fact that you are not sustaining these numbers is the problem. Your CS skill is not the problem. Your degree is not the problem. Your location is not the problem. You just happen to be currently employed in a job which is utterly unlike the job you trained for. It is called "sales." The first and most important thing sales reps have to do is make the conversations actually happen. Virtually no rep is successful without doing so.

I was supposed to get an answer today, but it appears I've been ghosted. I've also been ghosted by another company after doing a phone tech interview with the VP.

Another thing you learn from sales: this is totally normal even from people who will eventually buy the thing. You should, and I appreciate that this will be difficult, continue pinging these folks until you start working at their company or they tell you, explicitly, that they will not hire you. Sometimes hiring folks just go dark on candidates as a way of constructively terminating the conversation. That sucks but it happens. Sometimes hiring folks go dark for reasons which have nothing to do with the candidate. You won't believe how many don't check their #%()#%ing vacation calendars prior to making representations like "I'll have an answer to you next Tuesday." You won't believe how easy it is, when running a business, to get absorbed in the crisis du jour and straight-up forget that you were in conversations with an engineer you were excited about.

"Hiya Bob,

Thanks for interviewing me the other day. Just dropping you a line to check on our progress here."

"Hiya Bob,

Thanks for working on getting me hired at $FIRM. Is there anything I can do for you to expedite the process?"

It feels deeply unnatural to send variations on that email twelve times. Sales guys would continue doing it 20+ times. They do this because -- and this will blow your mind -- the sale often happens after the 18th email with no externally visible indication that this was likely to be the case.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

#5
My first real job was with a small non tech company. They wanted to move to a digital system for processing orders.

Did you teach yourself most of what you know before going to college? If so, up play that factor. Being able to teach yourself and answer your own questions goes loooong way. What have you been working on in the past 14 months?

Companies want to know how you can provide value to them. Be proud of the work you have done and talk about a interesting problem you solved. Giving clear cut answers is always good. Be confident and passionate, but but not cocky or ignorant. Try to avoid the words "I don't know" . If you don't, then explain how you would find a answer to the question. Always follow up the interview with a thank you letter, making it personal is key.

Go to a company hosted meetup event, mingle with the employees and if your interested let them know.

Look for events that require participation from those attending and help others when they are stuck.

Stick out from the crowd and you'll be good.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

#9
A few things that helped me get a job out of school. 1. Start working on a portfolio.ex: if you are a frontend dev work on creating some sample websites. 2. Algorithms & data structures play a major role for most of the s/w engg positions. The khan academy, coursera ate good places to start. 3. Something to build on 1. would be to see if any open source projects interest you n start contributing. Good luck...don't give up.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to people who graduate and can't find an entry job?

#10
Write down each of your interview in a file. Divide them by parts of interview, questions asked and answers you gave. It helps you to visualise where it could have gone better.

I gave 24 interviews after graduating - in every single of them I passed coding or tests but failed in face to face interview. I just gave answer to question in interview and never expanded on it and was never confident enough. Writing about interview then helped. I was in a shell during interviews and only writing about it helped me recognise in first place and develop a mindset to overcome it.

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