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When tenure never comes

thewalrus.ca

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Re: When tenure never comes

#21

Post by [deleted] »

carsongross wrote: post #16
jseliger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia expanded enormously between 1945 – 1975, when virtually everyone who got a PhD could get an academic job. Since then, time-to-degree for PhDs in all subjects has increased dramatically, post-docs have become the norm, and academic jobs have become scarce. I wrote about this in "What you should know BEFORE you start grad school / PhD programs in English Literature: The economic, financial, and opportunity cos…

One of my most infuriating moments at Berkeley was when I attended a symposium on pursuing an academic career (I was interested in one at that point) and a professor complained that students were too concerned with academics and weren't spending enough time protesting, like she had. It was the academic equivalent of Old Economy Steven. Very triggering.

[deleted]

Re: When tenure never comes

#22

Post by schoen »

carsongross wrote: post #16
jseliger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia expanded enormously between 1945 – 1975, when virtually everyone who got a PhD could get an academic job. Since then, time-to-degree for PhDs in all subjects has increased dramatically, post-docs have become the norm, and academic jobs have become scarce. I wrote about this in "What you should know BEFORE you start grad school / PhD programs in English Literature: The economic, financial, and opportunity cos…

One of my most infuriating moments at Berkeley was when I attended a symposium on pursuing an academic career (I was interested in one at that point) and a professor complained that students were too concerned with academics and weren't spending enough time protesting, like she had. It was the academic equivalent of Old Economy Steven. Very triggering.

In my first week as a Berkeley undergrad, I attended a workshop put on by the student activities office about student protest (sort of a mixture of history and how-to). Clearly at least some portions of the administration considered it part of their brand.

Re: When tenure never comes

#24

Post by mccoyspace »

FWIW, this story parallels the reality that most professional artists have experienced for a long time: hyper competition, extremely limited grant opportunities, no direct commercial market, everything paid out-of-pocket. A "compulsory hobby" is a great phrase.

Re: When tenure never comes

#25

Post by schoen »

scott_s wrote: post #15
arcanus wrote: post #7

Saddening story. However, as an academic myself, some bits were misleading or odd: > funding regulations meant the grant couldn’t pay my salary as its lead researcher I've never, ever heard of anything like this occurring. The most I have seen are cost sharing pieces where a grant cannot more than a certain % of your salary. But these are often known upfront by the PI! > The two disclosed who had submitted a grant pr…

I suspect the author is from the humanities, which have starkly different funding realities than what you and I are used to. (Your profile says you are a computational scientist, and while I work in industry, I still publish in computer science academic conferences.)

> I still publish in computer science academic conferences

Having just recently attended an academic conference as a non-academic (but not submitted anything this time), I was wondering whether non-academics do, or should, feel guilty about publishing at these venues. It was very apparent how other people there were looking for jobs and using their publications and presentations as a part of that process. If non-academics publish in journals and conferences, should we feel bad that we're potentially taking away spots from those these venues are "meant for"?

Re: When tenure never comes

#26

Post by pm90 »

Hermel wrote: post #4

An academic career should never be your only option. Make sure you study something that is useful in the real economy.

I sincerely hope that people who are genuinely excited about research do not adopt this attitude. Our affluent society allows us to specialize in what we like; allowing the best of us to create art and mathematics and make discoveries in science is as important as being a "contributing member of society".

Re: When tenure never comes

#27

Post by smallnamespace »

My experience in finance was that 50% of quants (especially physics PhDs from the 90s, when all the Cold War-era funding dried up) were failed academics.

Most of the rest were PhDs jumping straight to industry to avoid chasing tenure for years.

Re: When tenure never comes

#28

Post by scott_s »

schoen wrote: post #25
scott_s wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the author is from the humanities, which have starkly different funding realities than what you and I are used to. (Your profile says you are a computational scientist, and while I work in industry, I still publish in computer science academic conferences.)

> I still publish in computer science academic conferences Having just recently attended an academic conference as a non-academic (but not submitted anything this time), I was wondering whether non-academics do, or should, feel guilty about publishing at these venues. It was very apparent how other people there were looking for jobs and using their publications and presentations as a part of that process. If non-acad…

I don't feel bad at all, and in computer science systems conferences, there's usually a mix of people from industry and academia. (Both attending and even on the program committee.) I think a good mix is healthy for such conferences. Personally, I do both research and development, and I want to be able to publish the research I do.

Re: When tenure never comes

#29

Post by dnautics »

mccoyspace wrote: post #24

FWIW, this story parallels the reality that most professional artists have experienced for a long time: hyper competition, extremely limited grant opportunities, no direct commercial market, everything paid out-of-pocket. A "compulsory hobby" is a great phrase.

For STEM academes: The difference is that professional artists have long been aware of the "starving artist" stereotype aren't strongly sold a nationalism-backed narrative that "we need more scientists", followed by unsustainable, hierarchical organizational structures. Moreover, science typically holds itself to a different sort of accountability (empirical results and uncompromising honesty) as a professional ideal, whereas the actual nature of the beast, where funding is drawn to popular ideas and politically connected researchers instead of the most honest and productive.
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