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Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

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Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by arguing the personal liberty cost of emissions outweighs the personal liberty gained by tax reduction.

wouldnt the libertarian reaction to emissions be to sue the emitter for the lowered quality of air?

Yes

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#12
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by arguing the personal liberty cost of emissions outweighs the personal liberty gained by tax reduction.

wouldnt the libertarian reaction to emissions be to sue the emitter for the lowered quality of air?

Why is anybody entitled to free unpolluted oxygen in libertopia?

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#13

It's fairly easy to spot ideologically consistent libertarians if you ask them about climate change, carbon tax etc. Unfortunately, it turns out that they don't really exist in any great numbers.

Can you expound on this ideologically consistent view?

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by arguing the personal liberty cost of emissions outweighs the personal liberty gained by tax reduction.

wouldnt the libertarian reaction to emissions be to sue the emitter for the lowered quality of air?

I'm not at all familiar with the law in this area, but what stands in the way of doing that right now?

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#16
post #6

"Libertarian" and "tax" in the same sentence. How does that even work?

I assume by arguing the personal liberty cost of emissions outweighs the personal liberty gained by tax reduction.

I just went and read the Libertarian Party's platform. [1]

Under the issue of Environment:

"Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Governments are unaccountable for damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights and responsibilities regarding resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required."

And under Government Finance and Spending:

"All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a 'Balanced Budget Amendment' to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes."

So, unless it is shown to be constitutionally mandated a carvon tax is not endorsed by their platform.

If I read correctly, it would not be endorsed under their Crime and Justice section either.

Interesting aside, the Libertarian Party doesn't seem to be aware that all (100%) of U.S. currency is based on debt. The Treasury issues a bond, the Fed lrints money to buy it, and then all that goes into circulation. It's not magic, it's explicitly fiat, but I guess they missed that, or want to go back to something like the gold standard, which totally makes sense if you believe in the intrinsic value of gold rather than simply inderstanding it as a convenient means to mark a currency against if you want to limit inflation as only so much gold production per year is possible.

[1] https://www.lp.org/platform

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#17
post #10

More like Elon Musk points out by example why libertarianism is an oxymoron. As soon as all restrictions are lifted on businesses and a totally "free" market is created, business interests move to enact new regulations that entrench their positions.

How was this an example of how restrictions were lifted and a free market created?

You're missing the point. If we magically enacted perfectly libertarian business policies overnight, business would immediately get to work creating new regulations because they're still self-interested like they were before. This is what they do now, this is what they would do then, and this is also why anarcho capitalism is a contradiction.

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#18
Musk leaves out - or maybe he didn't but the reporter did - a couple of things. 1) Most of the subsidy for fossil fuels is actually a subsidy for transportation, which relies mostly on fossil fuels. 2) The production and re-fueling of EVs is primarily a fossil-fuel enabled activity ("EVs just have a longer tailpipe".)

Someone really interested in reducing fossil fuel consumption might want instead to subsidize ways of reducing transportation use.

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#19
post #2

I would expect him to make any argument he can against fossil fuels. He is heavily invested in solar technology.

Agreed. It's an argument for indirect subsidies to his company on top of the direct subsidies he already receives.

Elon Musk is hardly a libertarian. He's just another crony capitalist.

Re: Elon Musk makes a libertarian argument for carbon tax

#20
post #4

Coase, Pigou, all these ideas are fairly libertarian, just like other forms of property rights are, and externalities like pollution can be thought of as a form of trespass.

Pigouvianism is inherently intolerant and totalitarian, not libertarian, as it relies on imposing one's value judgements on others. Using a tax to force compliance rather than more draconian restrictions may be 'nicer', but is not Liberty.
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