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Ruby Summer of Code

rubysoc.org

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Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#21

Post by comice »

petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

"Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd."

They're not paying people to be motivated to bother. They're paying people to work. Therefore they "create and release open source doe for the benefit of all". Done. Tick.

"in something like open source, does it make sense to wave money at people who aren't already intrinsically attracted towards the cause?

what cause? open source is not about charity.

"If they're not familiar with these concepts and they're taking software engineering classes".

Concepts are one thing "exposure to real-world" is totally different.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#22

Post by [deleted] »

jamesbritt wrote: post #15
petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

Some seriously good points there, Peter. I also do not question the motives or integrity of the people behind this, and like you I don't care for the emphasis on students. I don't care so much that they get paid; hell, I wish people would pay me for doing open source software. I don't think it will alter any future motivations of anyone. But it may be entirely possible to achieve the desired results without the pay o…

[deleted]

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#23

Post by jackowayed »

jamesbritt wrote: post #15
petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

Some seriously good points there, Peter. I also do not question the motives or integrity of the people behind this, and like you I don't care for the emphasis on students. I don't care so much that they get paid; hell, I wish people would pay me for doing open source software. I don't think it will alter any future motivations of anyone. But it may be entirely possible to achieve the desired results without the pay o…

What's "documented need"? Hosting costs for the project? Room & board for the summer? College tuition?

I might not be considered to have "need." I'd live in my parents' house if I were to do this. I have to pay a good portion of my Stanford tuition somehow or another, but I could see you determing that that's not "need." (And if it is need, then >95% of your applicants will have at last $5k of tuition to pay for the year, so everyone will have need.)

Regardless of whether I "need" the money, spending an entire summer hacking full-time has some serious opportunity cost. I could get a real job (and make >$5k). I could hang out with my friends every day.

Do you really expect college students, most of whom have little money, to line up to forgo ~$10k of income (roughly the amount you can make at a programming internship, varying wildly of course) so they can do an open source project?

Sure, it would probably be more fun; it would be have completely flexible hours; you might not end up quite having to work full-time on it. But still. I'm a lot more likely to do it if I at least get a good portion of the compensation I could get from working.

And even if you do find people to do it, the quality of people will be a lot worse. For the most part, you'll get the people who don't have an opportunity cost of $10k because they're not good enough at programming to land a good job over the summer. So you'd probably just end up wasting a lot of the mentors' time because you'd have to accept lower-quality people. The money helps you be selective and hopefully get some truly high quality projects out of it.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#24

Post by petercooper »

jackowayed wrote: post #23
jamesbritt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some seriously good points there, Peter. I also do not question the motives or integrity of the people behind this, and like you I don't care for the emphasis on students. I don't care so much that they get paid; hell, I wish people would pay me for doing open source software. I don't think it will alter any future motivations of anyone. But it may be entirely possible to achieve the desired results without the pay o…

What's "documented need"? Hosting costs for the project? Room & board for the summer? College tuition? I might not be considered to have "need." I'd live in my parents' house if I were to do this. I have to pay a good portion of my Stanford tuition somehow or another, but I could see you determing that that's not "need." (And if it is need, then >95% of your applicants will have at last $5k of tuition to pay for the…

Do you really expect college students, most of whom have little money, to line up to forgo ~$10k of income (roughly the amount you can make at a programming internship, varying wildly of course) so they can do an open source project?

People should go where they can get the most overall value. Getting $10K for an in-the-flesh internship at a development shop is easily better value than $5K from the GSOC program for most people.

People who are good for open source are attracted to it naturally. They care about more than money. That's my whole point really.. that the best people in open source aren't motivated by cash, so why attract people who are?

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#25

Post by petercooper »

comice wrote: post #21
petercooper wrote: post #9

This project has been created with good intentions and I hope people get some good out of it. I'm not going to slam this well-meant project, but being modelled on the Google Summer of Code, I have some reservations. The GSOC FAQ states some primary "goals" of the program: CREATE AND RELEASE OPEN SOURCE CODE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd. If someon…

"Paying people to be motivated to bother to work on open source code seems odd." They're not paying people to be motivated to bother. They're paying people to work. Therefore they "create and release open source doe for the benefit of all". Done. Tick. "in something like open source, does it make sense to wave money at people who aren't already intrinsically attracted towards the cause? what cause? open source is not…

what cause? open source is not about charity.

"Open source" is commonly considered a "movement" or philosophy. While open source can be as simple as the process of merely releasing your code, the term typically refers to the more philosophical angle.

People who contribute to open source and end up getting paid to do that are one thing. People who only start to get involved with open source because they see a reward being waved about are quite another.

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#26

Post by jackowayed »

petercooper wrote: post #24
jackowayed wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "documented need"? Hosting costs for the project? Room & board for the summer? College tuition? I might not be considered to have "need." I'd live in my parents' house if I were to do this. I have to pay a good portion of my Stanford tuition somehow or another, but I could see you determing that that's not "need." (And if it is need, then >95% of your applicants will have at last $5k of tuition to pay for the…

Do you really expect college students, most of whom have little money, to line up to forgo ~$10k of income (roughly the amount you can make at a programming internship, varying wildly of course) so they can do an open source project? People should go where they can get the most overall value. Getting $10K for an in-the-flesh internship at a development shop is easily better value than $5K from the GSOC program for mo…

Sure. And I'm not saying there are people who love OSS who will give up OSS altogether because they can't or won't do SOC for free. They'd still hack OSS on the side, but they wouldn't do SOC.

There's lots of college students that really need to bring in some money over the summer so they can afford their tuition. Plenty are already taking out loans as it is.

Think of it like the YC money--it's not all that much, lots of the companies don't really need it, it generally isn't the main attraction, but some great people absolutely need it to participate, so giving it ensures that no one will have to turn the opportunity down because of money

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#27

Post by spicyj »

jackowayed wrote: post #2

They really need to make the requirements for students a little more clear (for example, I'm a senior in HS, can I apply?). I'd assume they'll flesh that out before they open the student app. Also, from the questions for students they list there, it seems like they might get some pretty bad outcomes: > Why do you use Ruby and/or Rails? How would you like to see them improve? Outline the specific project you're propos…

Apparently it holds the same eligibility requirements as GSoC, so you probably wouldn't be able to participate. (Me neither! :()

Re: Ruby Summer of Code

#28

Post by jackowayed »

spicyj wrote: post #27
jackowayed wrote: post #2

They really need to make the requirements for students a little more clear (for example, I'm a senior in HS, can I apply?). I'd assume they'll flesh that out before they open the student app. Also, from the questions for students they list there, it seems like they might get some pretty bad outcomes: > Why do you use Ruby and/or Rails? How would you like to see them improve? Outline the specific project you're propos…

Apparently it holds the same eligibility requirements as GSoC, so you probably wouldn't be able to participate. (Me neither! :()

That's pretty lame. I can get around that restriction because I'm taking a differential equations class at the University of Delaware, so I'm "a college student" :) But if I have to be 18 (as with GSoC), I'm out of luck, sadly.
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