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What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

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Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#241
post #233
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's legitimate to correct offending narratives that conflict with your version of reality. You're not "correcting" someone's interpretation simply by stating a different interpretation, unless there's some grounding in evidence and objective truth. Core1024 may have evidence that supports his interpretation, but he didn't present it. As such, it doesn't qualify as a correction.

> You're not "correcting" someone's interpretation simply by stating a different interpretation But that's how people use the word, that's what politics is. There are no objective truths to social narrative, and facts aren't the only things that have the property of correctness. Perspectives have correctness, as in moral perspectives etc. It's not an objective scale, but people don't have to conduct their lives scien…

You've now brought value judgement and morality into the discussion, and neither apply here.

The blogger said Meyer acted on an email complaint about the turnstiles. The commenter said that's incorrect, that Meyer decided to have them removed on her own accord.

There's no value judgement. There's no appeal to moral authority. It's not politics. Core1024 is claiming to be objectively correct about Meyer's internal motivation for removing the turnstile. In this case, it's acceptable to ask: what evidence do you have?

If he says "She told me herself" or "It was a water cooler rumor," then great, we have our answer. If he says, "It's my strong suspicion based on [...]," then he passed off suspicion as fact. And if he says, "There is no evidence, this is a social narrative I've constructed without regard to objective truth," then we have a serious problem.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#242
post #241
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not "correcting" someone's interpretation simply by stating a different interpretation But that's how people use the word, that's what politics is. There are no objective truths to social narrative, and facts aren't the only things that have the property of correctness. Perspectives have correctness, as in moral perspectives etc. It's not an objective scale, but people don't have to conduct their lives scien…

You've now brought value judgement and morality into the discussion, and neither apply here. The blogger said Meyer acted on an email complaint about the turnstiles. The commenter said that's incorrect, that Meyer decided to have them removed on her own accord. There's no value judgement. There's no appeal to moral authority. It's not politics. Core1024 is claiming to be objectively correct about Meyer's internal mot…

I've brought neither value judgment nor morality. I merely said that it's legit to think about perspectives as having degrees of correctness, just as it's legit to think about moral philosophies as having degrees of correctness. It's fine if you want say, "I don't believe you," and that would be a valid interpretation on your part. But it is politics in the true sense, and you're participating in it with this conversation. You're attempting to assert that your interpretation of a word or a concept or a situation is correct and that mine is not, even though there are no objective truths to be said about either perspective. As far as I can tell, OP doesn't claim that he is correcting the specific fact-claim about the turnstiles but that he is correcting the anecdotes as a whole. What I believe the OP wants to correct is the framing or the tone of the anecdotes, not any particulars facts inside them.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#243
post #242
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've now brought value judgement and morality into the discussion, and neither apply here. The blogger said Meyer acted on an email complaint about the turnstiles. The commenter said that's incorrect, that Meyer decided to have them removed on her own accord. There's no value judgement. There's no appeal to moral authority. It's not politics. Core1024 is claiming to be objectively correct about Meyer's internal mot…

I've brought neither value judgment nor morality. I merely said that it's legit to think about perspectives as having degrees of correctness, just as it's legit to think about moral philosophies as having degrees of correctness. It's fine if you want say, "I don't believe you," and that would be a valid interpretation on your part. But it is politics in the true sense, and you're participating in it with this convers…

> What I believe the OP wants to correct is the framing or the tone of the anecdotes

Fair enough. One person frames it as "Meyer was motivated by empathy," and the other frames it as "She was motivated by self-interest." Neither person can prove their claim conclusively, but I assume there's some evidence that led Core1024 to contradict the blogger. The best we can hope for is to hear evidence from both sides, and come to our own conclusion.

It might be common for people to say "You're wrong" without providing evidence or rationale. But unless "You're wrong" is accompanied by some justification, it's devoid of value. All we now know is that somebody on the Internet thinks Meyer is self-serving, and we knew that already.

> it's legit to think about perspectives as having degrees of correctness

Can you provide an example where one perspective on a person is correct (or more correct), another perspective on that person is incorrect (or less correct), and the relative correctness is not based on objective truth or an appeal to moral authority?

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#244
post #127
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Layoffs suck, but in some cases they're necessary. It doesn't really have anything to do with being nice or mean. The alternatives include treating people poorly and laying them off, or treating them well and not performing the tough part of your job as CEO. Neither is better.

I know. But look what she did to Yahoo, doesn't seem to me like a bunch of people losing their jobs did help anyone.

I know plenty of people at Yahoo hoping to get let go.

She successfully added a very aggressive change in control clause with a double trigger, so anyone let go will have accelerated vesting of all their stock.

For many of my friends there, they would be let go with essentially a 6 figure layoff package (in addition to 2 months of severence).

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#245

$200M for handing out free lunch, a self-esteem boost, a poorly implemented personnel ranking scheme, and a few emails at weird hours ... sounds like a pretty sweet deal. sign me up!

You could use this same argument for any CEO. Pick 3 things then say $X m for a b and c that's a pretty sweet deal. Sign me up.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#246
post #131
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Good" tends to be very subjective. Actually good people rarely get let go, unless there is a very good reason. At the same time almost everyone who gets laid off thinks they are a very good employee, which obviously is not the case. And execs get paid for the expectations and responsibility. You are just being salty right now.

Sometimes the reason doesn't need to be "good" in the sense that it's a great reason, but in the sense that it was the right decision. I worked as a engineer at a huge billion dollar company in a newly created slot. There was 2 on the team and I was the third. Then massive layoffs. Thousands of people let go. I was one of them. Was I "good people" ? I don't know. I like to think I was, that's why I got the position.…

But that's the point. You weren't a "good" employee if you're judging on one metric: experience with their infrastructure.

You were clearly good enough to get hired but all things considered you were the correct person the let go.

The distinction, and you seem to understand, is that it wasn't a personal thing. People say stuff like "let go of good people". What does being a good person have anything to do with running a business?

Not saying any of this is right or wrong but more musing over what drives business decisions and how people will often mix personal feelings into non-personal decisions.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#247
post #198
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, yeah this same excuse is always used to justify insane executive pays but it's baloney. It's a self perpetuating cycle, "Oh WE Have to pay more because companies X, Y and Z are offering $N million!" Executive pay has skyrocketed in relation to worker pay over the last 30 years and it's not for any good reason like executives are so much more important or talented. It's because the executive pay is decided by bo…

I think this looks to be the more plausible reason for massive executive pay than anything else. I remember watching a documentary about F1 and there was a comment about Bernie Ecclestone made everyone understand that they have to work together to make the pie (F1 earning) bigger so that everyone's share become bigger. It seems that executives are essentially doing the same. Making and perpetuating the myth of extrem…

> 5-10 times the salary but 10s of millions sound absurd.

and that seems to be regardless of whether you're any good or not.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#248
post #103
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that she was getting paid tens of millions each year to do that job. (Sorry if I'm making a wrong assumption about your salary!) The original post makes Mayer sound like one of the most people-centric CEOs in the business. The contrast to someone like Léo Apotheker at HP is stark (just to pick a random tech CEO who seemed like the exact opposite).

Seems to me like she was the "I say hello to you by first name in the morning but lay you off anyway" kind of CEO Worked with a bunch of such people. Always nice in the front.

> Always nice in the front.

I'd happily settle for this. I've met many's the type that were just rude, and layed you off anyway. I'll take a bit of manners with my daily beating any day!

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#249

$200M for handing out free lunch, a self-esteem boost, a poorly implemented personnel ranking scheme, and a few emails at weird hours ... sounds like a pretty sweet deal. sign me up!

You could use this same argument for any CEO. Pick 3 things then say $X m for a b and c that's a pretty sweet deal. Sign me up.

another non-reader. i picked out the main points the writer specified.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#250
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Success would have been growing revenues, instead of watching them decline. Success would have been at least one really successful mobile app. Success would have been not selling Yahoo....

Conceivably, you could consider it a phenomenal success to sell something for $5 billion that the stock market was once valuing at less than $0.

It's a little more complicated than that, but see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UHMfzlmE7HXY_ph9BN68...
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