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Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#91

Post by unclebucknasty »

cloverich wrote: post #84
unclebucknasty wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's instead apply it where I suggested we should.

That's not a valid counter argument. He's using an analogy to produce a practical counter-example where private funded research is producing better / cheaper solutions (presumably, I'm uninformed on the subject). I think a more valid counter-argument would be arguing SpaceX isn't better, or that the domains share no similarities.

>*a more valid counter-argument would be arguing that SpaceX isn't better or that the domains share no similarities

Not quite. Arguing that Space X is no better would be following a red herring and arguing that there are no similarities is too high a standard. A valid counterargument merely needs to show that they are sufficiently different in some important way.

And, my (admittedly pithy) counterargument ran exactly along those lines.

Meanwhile, the main difference between the domains had already been pointed out in my original comment, and I even provided an example of a relevant domain.

So, you've gotten it exactly backwards: the burden is on my respondent to demonstrate why SpaceX is a relevant analogy/counterargument.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#92

Post by nikdaheratik »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #4

Awesome research. But... > The researchers then checked snot from hospitalized patients. Of 187 samples, all but one were colonized by either S. aureus or S. lugdunensis > S. lugdunensis, was killing S. aureus. Its weapon of choice? A small compound dubbed lugdunin > The German researchers who performed the study have filed a patent for lugdunin Are we really allowing people to patent naturally occurring biological c…

Well if it is patented and the terms are very lenient, because it's owned by the government, then that's the best of both worlds since it prevents some other company from patenting it and charging heaps and then it gets put into the public domain in 20 years (or whatever the term is).

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#93

Post by iofj »

visarga wrote: post #23
danmaz74 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK bacteria aren't developing a way to get resistant faster; the problem is antibiotics over-use (and misuse). Also, if an antibiotic for which resistance was developed doesn't get used for a long enough time, the bacteria lose the resistance. The bottom line is that we need to use newly developed antibiotics more carefully, continue researching new ones, and no Spanish flu like incident will happen (even without…

> if an antibiotic for which resistance was developed doesn't get used for a long enough time, the bacteria lose the resistance That would suggest that we need a few more antibiotics to cycle though, by the time we get back to the older ones they will be efficient again.

That's not really true. While it's true that bacteria will become vulnerable again - after dozens of years - they will adapt back to resistence far faster as well.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#94

Post by ss248 »

djrogers wrote: post #81
ss248 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that we need to let millions of people die of curable diseases constantly" Not the case at all. Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated. "The problem is that evolution is out-researching us" Evolution also has a simple rule: "Use it or lose it". So don't be afraid. There are ways around acquired immunity.

>Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated. Completely false - antibiotic (and all drug) use in animals is absolutely regulated in nearly all countries, including the US [1,2,3]. Said regulations may not be what you'd like, but to claim they don't exist is silly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#Re... […

Yeah, I guess I was wrong about regulation. But point still stands.

From your second link:

"In the U.S., about 80 percent of antibiotics are used for livestock and 20 percent for humans"

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#95

Post by googletazer »

DrScump wrote: post #44
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like drug discovery ought to be taxpayer-funded, then, as a project that is in the public interest but difficult to monetize without jeopardizing the public interest.

I think that even private-sector-developed drugs rely on publicly-funded research. Worst is when American companies charge U.S. customers higher prices than overseas consumers for drugs that were developed using USA-taxpayer-funded research.

They charge everyone as much as they can get away with, its still the same old supply and demand. The issue is that say France/Egypt/India can provide an organize front when dealing with pharmaceutical companies so they get better deals.

Ever seen the video with Ron Paul being asked a question with what should happen to a person who has no insurance but needs immediate medical care and the audience shouted "Let him die!". There's your answer.

Never gets old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#96

Post by briancleland »

refurb wrote: post #79
briancleland wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why the researchers couldn't have placed their discovery in the public domain, just as Tim Berners-Lee did with his ideas. Unfortunately many universities (and hence researchers) are under pressure to commercialise their IP, based on the assumption that such behaviour is beneficial to the economy.

Well, which is easier? 1. Get a patent, find a commercial partner and investors who will give you a ton of money to develop it in the hopes of getting a return. 2. Make it public domain, remove any financial incentive to develop it, then try and convince whoever to give you hundreds of millions of dollars to develop it without any hope of financial return?

Those are not the only options. Free and open source innovations can create enormous economic opportunities - witness Linux, the Web, etc etc. Even now, unpatented medicines are widely commercially available and making some people a lot of money.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#97

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #79
briancleland wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why the researchers couldn't have placed their discovery in the public domain, just as Tim Berners-Lee did with his ideas. Unfortunately many universities (and hence researchers) are under pressure to commercialise their IP, based on the assumption that such behaviour is beneficial to the economy.

Well, which is easier? 1. Get a patent, find a commercial partner and investors who will give you a ton of money to develop it in the hopes of getting a return. 2. Make it public domain, remove any financial incentive to develop it, then try and convince whoever to give you hundreds of millions of dollars to develop it without any hope of financial return?

[deleted]

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#98

Post by refurb »

briancleland wrote: post #96
refurb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, which is easier? 1. Get a patent, find a commercial partner and investors who will give you a ton of money to develop it in the hopes of getting a return. 2. Make it public domain, remove any financial incentive to develop it, then try and convince whoever to give you hundreds of millions of dollars to develop it without any hope of financial return?

Those are not the only options. Free and open source innovations can create enormous economic opportunities - witness Linux, the Web, etc etc. Even now, unpatented medicines are widely commercially available and making some people a lot of money.

Can you give examples of unpatented medicines making people a lot of money?

The folks I know who work in generics complain about the razor thin margins.

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