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The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

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Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#141

Post by MaysonL »

oblio wrote: post #21
mc32 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's worse, that or not speaking a perfect Frankish language of when in the land of Franks? At least the English tolerate all kinds of foreign mangling pretty well.

> At least the English tolerate all kinds of foreign mangling pretty well. That's because they mangle their own language awfully enough. I'm not a native English speaker but I've heard quite a few native Englishmen and their accents are horrible. Received Pronunciation is obviously nice to hear and quite clear, but those local accents... oh my! I'm not saying that my accent is any better, but at least I try to make m…

"Whenever any Englishman opens his mouth, he makes some other Englishman despise him" – Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#142

Post by bmm6o »

amyjess wrote: post #111
nkrisc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love listening to the English butcher (assimilate?) loanwords. Sure, other English-speaking peoples do as well, but the English in particular do it with gusto. Even McDonalds gets 'filet' mostly right.

One thing that really surprised me was when I first started watching Top Gear : they pronounced "Mazda" and "Bugatti" with flat As (that is, they used IPA [æ] for the first occurrences of 'a' in both words). I was really taken aback by how aggressively anglicized those names.

They do the same thing with Obama's first name. Along the spectrum of preserving the original pronunciation, they seem to be firmly at one end.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#143

Post by mannykannot »

I think there is more than insularity/xenophobia going on here. When faced with an unpleasant situation, there is some benefit in taking pride in one's ability to cope. It can easily be taken too far, however, leading to an aversion to doing something about it, and antipathy towards those who do. It is as if getting soaked by rain became part of Britain's tribal identity.

Umbrellas are pretty effective against rain, and I think it is amusing that they were invented to protect against the sun by providing shade.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#144

Post by alimw »

bmm6o wrote: post #125
arprocter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of strange how the US pronounces French words more correctly than us Brits - I assume it's partly due to our historical disdain for those on the other side of The Channel. In the UK it's called a 'fillit of fish' and a car with 2 doors (coupe) is called a 'koop-ay' as if there was an accent on the e

There was an interesting piece on the local public radio station a few months back about the pronunciation (in the US) of "pecan". One of the things they talked about is that in English, words with 2 syllables generally have an emphasis on the first, while French is the other way. When we borrow a French word into English, it starts with the emphasis on the second syllable and over time it migrates to the first. For…

In French you don't really stress individual syllables at all. According to Wikipedia [1], "only the last word in a phonological phrase retains its full grammatical stress (on its last syllable unless this is a schwa)."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_phonology

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#145

Post by elsurudo »

jasonkester wrote: post #25
seizethecheese wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely alive in Portland, OR. There's a pride in handling the rain.

Portland and Seattle are interesting though. It rains a lot, but it never seems to rain on you . I walked to work in Portland for two years, and while the streets were normally wet and it had clearly been raining recently, there were only a handful of days where I actually got wet during the half hour I was walking. I never carried an umbrella. Compare that to England, where the rain will wait until you're a few hund…

> Portland and Seattle are interesting though. It rains a lot, but it never seems to rain on you.

That's right, it's a constant drizzle, but rarely anything more.

Lived there for just four months, but it was the fall "rainy season", and I barely ever used my umbrella.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#146

Post by Declanomous »

jessaustin wrote: post #132
lsmarigo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes agreed everyone should cater to you specifically in life.

ISTM "refraining from stabbing" isn't really the same as "catering".

I think the other guy was right, I'm being very selfish. It's really my fault that my glasses have been scratched by the ferrules on the ends of umbrellas.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#147

Post by jhbadger »

arprocter wrote: post #96
nkrisc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love listening to the English butcher (assimilate?) loanwords. Sure, other English-speaking peoples do as well, but the English in particular do it with gusto. Even McDonalds gets 'filet' mostly right.

It's kind of strange how the US pronounces French words more correctly than us Brits - I assume it's partly due to our historical disdain for those on the other side of The Channel. In the UK it's called a 'fillit of fish' and a car with 2 doors (coupe) is called a 'koop-ay' as if there was an accent on the e

Or "herbs". Americans say "erbs", approximating the French while the English say it like something owned by a guy named Herb.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#148

Post by jhbadger »

BjoernKW wrote: post #41
raverbashing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English was not "influenced" by Old Norse, rather, they are siblings

Actually, its both. Old English is related to Old Norse as modern German is to modern Swedish: They're similar but not as close as German and Dutch or English and Frisian, for instance. However, in the Early Middle Ages English was also heavily and directly influenced by Old Norse because Vikings at that time not only more or less continually invaded the English east coast but also settled and established their own j…

And it gets another dose after 1066 because the Normans were really former Vikings who adopted a Romance language and the Norman language contains a lot of Norse words in addition to Latinate ones.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#149

Post by magic_beans »

duaneb wrote: post #119
colanderman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an accent on the "e": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coup%C3%A9#English

The accent is a reflection of the British pronunciation; note the original French never had an accent either. It is absolutely incorrect in America and implies a different pronunciation than anywhere but Britain. EDIT: I am wrong.

I have never seen such an edit on the internet before.

I am amazed.

This is why I love HN.

Re: The Public Shaming of England’s First Umbrella User

#150

Post by arprocter »

bmm6o wrote: post #125
arprocter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of strange how the US pronounces French words more correctly than us Brits - I assume it's partly due to our historical disdain for those on the other side of The Channel. In the UK it's called a 'fillit of fish' and a car with 2 doors (coupe) is called a 'koop-ay' as if there was an accent on the e

There was an interesting piece on the local public radio station a few months back about the pronunciation (in the US) of "pecan". One of the things they talked about is that in English, words with 2 syllables generally have an emphasis on the first, while French is the other way. When we borrow a French word into English, it starts with the emphasis on the second syllable and over time it migrates to the first. For…

Funny you mention pecans - Americans make a fuss when they hear my British pronunciation of 'cashew'
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