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My Interviews with Amazon

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Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#121
post #57
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll work for them in a heartbeat. Seriously, I want to work somewhere where I'm never bored, and can take part in conversations, etc. It seems like a good place for an ambitious new grad for a few years. If there are any Amazon employees reading this, please reach out!

> I want to work somewhere where I'm never bored, and can take part in conversations, etc. Try a startup?

At the risk of just repeating what deegles said, do startups really want the overhead of a new grad? I've met people 2-3 years out of school who can barely communicate or work in a professional environment. I can't imagine dealing with a new grad plus the faster-than-average-corporate environment of a startup.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#122
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if one has accepted the offer, which, spoiler alert , this guy did not.

I'm pretty sure I had to sign NDAs regarding coding questions before any interviews happened (not Amazon, a different company).

What are they going to do? Take you to court for vaguely describing a coding question?

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#123

I'm a little confused. The recruiter said that $170-$200k was an acceptable range. Then they offered him the position for significantly less than that. I don't understand why he even considered the offer. I would have been really upset that they wasted my time with a bait and switch. Am wrong for feeling that way? Are there other factors to consider?

You are not wrong, but there are always other factors to consider.

The recruiter has no incentive to tell the truth regarding salary unless it's way off. Think of it this way: worst case scenario, exactly what happens happens. The recruiter gets someone to apply who everyone likes but they don't accept an offer. Best case scenario, something makes the guy take the lower offer - whether it's his wife losing her job or he gets wined and dined enough that he's willing to take the hit to COL to have Amazon on his resume.

The recruiter already got "credit" for having the person apply.

What isn't clear is whether he countered. It sounds like he didn't because he mentions family as the main reason not to leave. But I imagine had he countered he could have easily gotten to that $170k number or very close.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#124
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I opened the Amazon door as a new dev and found something very different than what this post describes. The first step - before speaking to anyone about my background or interest - was going to be an intensive, one-hour coding session. It looked like it would be more "independent proof of competence" than "friendly programming task to evaluate you". I was expected to be on webcam the entire time to ver…

Bezos set a mandate to HR a few years ago that he wanted them to be able to hire a new grad without ever needing to speak to a human engineer. That is, he wants the entire interview process automated (specifically for new grads, at least for now). What you experienced is part of their experiment in figuring out how to make this work. They've got a number of variations of interviews going on right now. I believe this…

Anecdotal evidence: I know some new grads who took this test when Amazon rolled out this automated form of hiring 2 years back. There were several crazy things with this process.. the questions in the test were changed only once a week and they did actually make offers to new grads after just the 3 hour online test. In dorm rooms where a bunch of students are applying for jobs at the same time, news travels fast. In short, there are a whole bunch of people working at Amazon who got their jobs by just typing out answers to questions they memorized.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#125
post #11
post #3

Interesting, I get pestered by them constantly, and never actually considered going for it. For one thing, the common sentiment on HN seems to be 'friends don't let friends work for Amazon'. Amazon seems like a meat grinder, where getting hired isn't as hard as it seems, and they just burn through young people who don't know better. This is as someone completely on the outside who's only heard stories, though. When I…

I'll work for them in a heartbeat. Seriously, I want to work somewhere where I'm never bored, and can take part in conversations, etc. It seems like a good place for an ambitious new grad for a few years. If there are any Amazon employees reading this, please reach out!

I'd be happy to get you into the interview process, or at least point you in the right direction.

My experience at Amazon has been great. I don't know anyone who cries at their desk, works 80 hours per week, or feels like they're being pushed through a meat grinder. I worked for Microsoft before Amazon, and that was brutal. You'll find bad teams at every large company. One of my friends was on one at Google.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#126
post #31
post #3

Interesting, I get pestered by them constantly, and never actually considered going for it. For one thing, the common sentiment on HN seems to be 'friends don't let friends work for Amazon'. Amazon seems like a meat grinder, where getting hired isn't as hard as it seems, and they just burn through young people who don't know better. This is as someone completely on the outside who's only heard stories, though. When I…

You can find anecdotes about how working at any company is a bad experience and others about how it's a good experience. With Amazon, however, there's something qualitatively different. The anecdotes and evidence of it being a terrible place to work far outweigh the positive. Its bad reputation is confirmed by things you read about their policies, quotes from Jeff Bezos, etc. Poor treatment of employees is consistent…

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Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#127
post #11
post #3

Interesting, I get pestered by them constantly, and never actually considered going for it. For one thing, the common sentiment on HN seems to be 'friends don't let friends work for Amazon'. Amazon seems like a meat grinder, where getting hired isn't as hard as it seems, and they just burn through young people who don't know better. This is as someone completely on the outside who's only heard stories, though. When I…

I'll work for them in a heartbeat. Seriously, I want to work somewhere where I'm never bored, and can take part in conversations, etc. It seems like a good place for an ambitious new grad for a few years. If there are any Amazon employees reading this, please reach out!

Yah so this is the age old problem.

Big companies do really big thing. Google is literally changing the world. But if you get a job there, you are employee #145,231. Maybe if you work hard for 5 years you can rise to the rank of middle manager, and attend a meeting with someone that reports to the CEO, and maybe you can try to get a project you want done scheduled. More likely you will just do the work you are assigned until you quit.

Now a startup is the opposite. Blank startup has no power to change anything. But within that startup, you have 100% voice. If you work really hard, in 5 years maybe your startup will be big and you can change the world. Or more likely, they will go under or get bought out and you have not changed the world.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#128
post #3

Interesting, I get pestered by them constantly, and never actually considered going for it. For one thing, the common sentiment on HN seems to be 'friends don't let friends work for Amazon'. Amazon seems like a meat grinder, where getting hired isn't as hard as it seems, and they just burn through young people who don't know better. This is as someone completely on the outside who's only heard stories, though. When I…

I'm ex-AWS. Actually an ex-AWS hiring manager. My experience is at odds with the negative stories. What Amazon has is a culture with a strong flavour. Like all strong flavours, I think you're going to either love it or loathe it.

I had a fantastic team to work with - they were all either ex-tech-sector CTOs or equivalent or they had that level of potential. So as the team manager I had permanent case of imposter syndrome. My manager was the kind of engineering leader you want to be, a listener first and foremost, smart and principled and demanding but not harsh. The technology is all the more mind-blowing when you look under the bonnet. The culture and corporate structure is remarkable and in my opinion a major strategic factor in the Amazon success story. We were always hiring, all the time. When you have such strong ICs, they don't want anything less than A-list peers. As an AWS manager I allocated roughly a third of my time to hiring and promotion, and more during certain internal cycles.

So it was hard work in a demanding environment but I loved it, and that made stepping away all the more difficult. Would I return? If my startup tanked, in a heartbeat, if they'd have me back.

I also think that those who loathed it are far more vocal than those who loved it. Part of the culture is a strong sense of nondisclosure, and if you have positive memories of the place, that's going to carry over.

I will say, the hiring process described may differ between teams. There are consistencies that the recruitment folks systematically enforce, but as a hiring manager (at least in my region) we had latitude to vary screening steps and the mix of the in-person interviews. I didn't futz with it much though, to avoid screwing up procedural fairness.

I am not surprised this author got an offer, they seem bright enough, and engaging with the process and the company with genuine interest and an open mind (without trying to game it) is definitely a very positive framing and I imagine this came across in person.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#129
post #121
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to work somewhere where I'm never bored, and can take part in conversations, etc. Try a startup?

At the risk of just repeating what deegles said, do startups really want the overhead of a new grad? I've met people 2-3 years out of school who can barely communicate or work in a professional environment. I can't imagine dealing with a new grad plus the faster-than-average-corporate environment of a startup.

Not as employee 1 or 2 or 3. Maybe by employee 5 or 6 you can afford 1 or so new guys. New guys are awesome, but a lot of work. Hard to justify them for a few years...

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#130
post #111
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why is Seattle so bad you'd give up the relative safety to live in a third world country?

I did an internship there and didn't see catch a glimpse of the sun for three straight months. I've never been so depressed in my life. That's the main reason; it also smells like pee, there are aggressive hobos everywhere, the public transit is useless, it rains every day, and everything closes at 6pm.

> it also smells like pee, there are aggressive hobos everywhere, the public transit is useless

As a San Francisco resident who recently visited Seattle, I was amazed by how much less it smelled like pee (and other human waste), how polite the hobos were, and how efficient the public transportation was. It seemed like some kind of gleaming urban utopia, although I did visit on warm sunny days.

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