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Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#81
post #18
post #13

This does nothing to solve the real problem. The issue isn't (or wasn't) that we couldn't cure MRSA at all, it was a gradual evolution. In the 1960's we had 5 working drugs that would kill essentially any bacteria. And then we had 4. We discovered new ones, at one point I believe up to 7. But resistance made it go down pretty much by one per decade, but each next one ended faster. And then it hit zero, in 2012 I beli…

"The problem is that we need to let millions of people die of curable diseases constantly" Not the case at all. Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated. "The problem is that evolution is out-researching us" Evolution also has a simple rule: "Use it or lose it". So don't be afraid. There are ways around acquired immunity.

>Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated.

Completely false - antibiotic (and all drug) use in animals is absolutely regulated in nearly all countries, including the US [1,2,3]. Said regulations may not be what you'd like, but to claim they don't exist is silly.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#Re...

[2]http://modernfarmer.com/2015/10/california-antibiotic-livest...

[3]https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/06/03/2015-133...

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Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#82

Awesome research. But... > The researchers then checked snot from hospitalized patients. Of 187 samples, all but one were colonized by either S. aureus or S. lugdunensis > S. lugdunensis, was killing S. aureus. Its weapon of choice? A small compound dubbed lugdunin > The German researchers who performed the study have filed a patent for lugdunin Are we really allowing people to patent naturally occurring biological c…

Under the Supreme Court's decision in Myriad (which held you can't patent naturally-occurring gene sequences by themselves), you probably can't patent a naturally-occurring biological compound.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#83

Awesome research. But... > The researchers then checked snot from hospitalized patients. Of 187 samples, all but one were colonized by either S. aureus or S. lugdunensis > S. lugdunensis, was killing S. aureus. Its weapon of choice? A small compound dubbed lugdunin > The German researchers who performed the study have filed a patent for lugdunin Are we really allowing people to patent naturally occurring biological c…

You have to choose a system. If we don't want naturally-occurring compounds patented, but we want them researched for potential drug use, we need more public funding. Otherwise, we have to offer researchers and drug manufacturers an incentive to take risks with exploring these compounds. Barring lugdunin from being patented while providing no public funding would incentivise this group to withhold publication until t…

There was a prior HN discussion around who owns what IP when public funding is involved. It was an interesting discussion for those who are interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9268349

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#84
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we applied that same logic to space exploration, Space X wouldn't exist.

So, let's instead apply it where I suggested we should.

That's not a valid counter argument. He's using an analogy to produce a practical counter-example where private funded research is producing better / cheaper solutions (presumably, I'm uninformed on the subject). I think a more valid counter-argument would be arguing SpaceX isn't better, or that the domains share no similarities.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#85
post #82

Awesome research. But... > The researchers then checked snot from hospitalized patients. Of 187 samples, all but one were colonized by either S. aureus or S. lugdunensis > S. lugdunensis, was killing S. aureus. Its weapon of choice? A small compound dubbed lugdunin > The German researchers who performed the study have filed a patent for lugdunin Are we really allowing people to patent naturally occurring biological c…

Under the Supreme Court's decision in Myriad (which held you can't patent naturally-occurring gene sequences by themselves), you probably can't patent a naturally-occurring biological compound.

... in the United States.

They filed for a patent under the European patent regime, right?

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#86
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that we need to let millions of people die of curable diseases constantly" Not the case at all. Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated. "The problem is that evolution is out-researching us" Evolution also has a simple rule: "Use it or lose it". So don't be afraid. There are ways around acquired immunity.

>Biggest use of antibiotics today is in food production(agriculture etc.), not in hospitals. And it's also completely unregulated. Completely false - antibiotic (and all drug) use in animals is absolutely regulated in nearly all countries, including the US [1,2,3]. Said regulations may not be what you'd like, but to claim they don't exist is silly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#Re... […

True, but it must go down or we will never have functional antibiotics.

It seems to be possible, in Italy they use 50 times more antibiotics per pig than here in Sweden, due to the stricter regulation. Denmark is doing good but still uses twice as much as in Sweden.

This is due to our regulations, and it costs more to keep the pigs healthy, but due to EU:s strict trade rules, there are no way we can protect our farmers from the cheaper meat.

And somehow Italian ham is considered to be of higher quality...

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#87
post #65
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that even private-sector-developed drugs rely on publicly-funded research. Worst is when American companies charge U.S. customers higher prices than overseas consumers for drugs that were developed using USA-taxpayer-funded research.

You really think it's bad to charge a lower price to lower income countries? A drug company should just charge people in Egypt the same as the US?

You have that backward.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#88
post #38

Now we need a globally agreed system of anti-biotic triage - you can have anti-biotics, but only administered in hospital, signed off by two doctors and with these life threatening conditions. Treat them with care this time round

That would overwhelm our hospital system. It's possible to find middle ground, and I think comprehensive IT systems for all doctors with real-time forbidden drugs lists and epidemia tracking would make this much easier. It's even possible to divide hospitals into "different drug is forbidden here", and when someone has MRSA - put him in a hospital where the drugs that doesn't work on him - are banned anyway. And use…

I am advocating a more restrictive and considered prescription regieme - specifically only allowing hospitals to prescribe is an example not a policy decision

That's said I am under convinced it would overwhelm hospitals. Hospitals seem overwhelmed to me because A&E is a faster and more efficient way "into" the system than community based care or other approaches.

The common case is elderly care - almost no funding for in home nursing help, hard to get through the process, and elderly struggle on until a manageable chronic complaint turns acute, leading to ambulance, A&E admittance and a struggle for scare beds in wards. Whereas the hospital probably could have been avoided through treatment at home / locally.

Until we pay for community systems we won't relive the pressure on hospitals. And this out centre of excellence will just be fire fighting.

(Excuse the sudden rant - not sure where that came from :-)

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#89
post #85
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the Supreme Court's decision in Myriad (which held you can't patent naturally-occurring gene sequences by themselves), you probably can't patent a naturally-occurring biological compound.

... in the United States. They filed for a patent under the European patent regime, right?

I should have RTFA'ed.

Re: Nasal Bacteria Pump Out a Potential New Antibiotic That Kills MRSA

#90
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antibiotic use in humans has rarely been a problem, it's the way that "restricted" antibiotics are used on lifestock freely and in large quantities that keeps screwing us over.

That's absolutely untrue. It's the use in humans that results in resistance in humans. The connection to livestock is pretty tenuous.

Citation needed. The following sources disagree strongly with your claim:

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.publhea...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/sep/19/scientists-a...

http://www.cdc.gov/narms/animals.html

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