What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold • Hacker News Board

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#41

Post by cocktailpeanuts » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

wehadfun wrote: post #31

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may get downvoted for saying this since it's not fashionable to say things like this but I will anyway: When a company is going down, the type of people you need is people who are enthusiastic and team players. The last type of people you need are competent yet not so much of a team player. It's because: 1. Pampering these people will only result in lowering rest of the team's morale. 2. When a company is going dow…

That could explain the anti work from home policy but what about buying that pre-teens app for like $15M. What did that accomplish?

I think that was the only way at that point to bring in fresh creative talent. No creative person probably wanted to quit their existing job and leave for Yahoo at that point.

And why would they? If you're really talented, you could either go work for Google/Facebook/etc. (if you want a stable life), or start your own company (if you're adventurous). Yahoo was stuck in the purgatory somewhere in between.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#42

Post by colmvp » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

While her great experiences illustrate a caring and hard-working person, I still can't forget writeups describing someone who was unable to develop a product strategy / roadmap in a timely manner, resulting in a lot of miscommunication and execs left in limbo (see the Forbes article written in early 2015).

There's no doubt that it was extremely hard to turn that ship around, so I'm not at all attributing the company's failure to her. But as a product person, at the end of the day, my best experiences with CEOs has never been about whether they've rejuvenated a certain company culture but rather their ability to help provide vision and strategy (among other things).

Furthermore:

> But I know that, if I’m ever in a position like Marissa’s, I want to be the kind of CEO who answers emails from strangers six or seven levels down from herself at 1 AM on a Sunday morning, even when she has a new baby in the house. I want to be the kind of person who has time to hear people out, even when they’re saying things that hurt me.

Honestly, I'm happy when my CEO answers e-mails at reasonable hours and has work/life balance (as much as a CEO can get).

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#43

Post by GuiA » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

"if I’m ever in a position like Marissa’s, I want to be the kind of CEO who answers emails from strangers six or seven levels down from herself at 1 AM on a Sunday morning, even when she has a new baby in the house."

I'm grateful for this article reminding me why I never really will fit in with the techie fanatics. Yesterday I went home at 5p, after a very productive day, and trimmed plants in my garden, not checking my work email until the next day.

(Well maybe for $200M over 5 years you could convince me to do that. But then it's back to books and gardening and developing pictures)

Also oddly reminiscent of this post from yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12168718

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#44

Post by stinkytaco » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

scholia wrote: post #23

wehadfun wrote: post #8

Off topic but what would the selling price for Yahoo have to be for MM to be considered a success? 20B, 100B,..

Success would have been growing revenues, instead of watching them decline. Success would have been at least one really successful mobile app. Success would have been not selling Yahoo....

Yahoo is a publicly traded company. Selling Yahoo went very well for the shareholders and the first rule for any publicly traded company is to maximize shareholder value.

I think it's very clear that the goal when she was hired was to sell the company and get the shareholder's some payout. Considering where the company was when she came in, I'd say she did an admirable job at this.

You might say that's not success, but I think the (shareholder elected) board had the company on that trajectory before she was hired. She came in to finish the job.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#45

Post by bkor » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #22

bitL wrote: post #15

Sorry, so she raised comfort of some employees (which developer "on a mission to save a company" really needs free food instead of interesting challenges?) and decreased the ability to hire top talent by introducing other employee-unfriendly policies like banning remote work, i.e. working while living on Hawaii, giving superb motivation to stay at Yahoo and see it prosper. The rest seems more like a COO would do and…

I may get downvoted for saying this since it's not fashionable to say things like this but I will anyway: When a company is going down, the type of people you need is people who are enthusiastic and team players. The last type of people you need are competent yet not so much of a team player. It's because: 1. Pampering these people will only result in lowering rest of the team's morale. 2. When a company is going dow…

How has working from home/remotely imply being a team player/enthusiastic yes/no?

I work for a non-IT company. Loads of people work in the office. There are a few which do not. They're really good at their job (it is somewhat measurable), are a team player and take their work very seriously. This in a big company where they have a dress code, etc.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#46

Post by exelius » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #30

bitL wrote: post #15

Sorry, so she raised comfort of some employees (which developer "on a mission to save a company" really needs free food instead of interesting challenges?) and decreased the ability to hire top talent by introducing other employee-unfriendly policies like banning remote work, i.e. working while living on Hawaii, giving superb motivation to stay at Yahoo and see it prosper. The rest seems more like a COO would do and…

>introducing other employee-unfriendly policies like banning remote work I heard for friends working at yahoo that this was perceived as positive by a lot of employees at yahoo. for years yahoo was so directionless that there were a lots of people who were simply slacking off using wfh as an excuse. This was breeding a lot of resentment among people who were actually doing work. Sure it might have hurt honest wfh wor…

wfh works great if your work is mostly heads-down. Remote working sucks for anything creative and almost everything collaborative -- I can't tell you how many 30 minute meetings I have every day that could have been solved with a 5 minute conversation and a picture on a whiteboard. While that's unavoidable to some extent, you should also try to be physically collocated with the people you work with most frequently to reduce the overhead of interaction with them.

Also, wfh can be a bad thing if the company has a paranoid, avoidant, passive-aggressive culture like Yahoo did. Life situations that require flexibility can seem like extended absences to coworkers who aren't in the loop, which in turn spawns rumors, misinformation and resentment among employees.

By the time she took over, Yahoo had been in a death spiral for years. Most of their best employees were already gone, and everyone left was mostly punching the clock. You've gotta make changes when that's happening, and scaling back wfh is reasonable in that context. I'm sure they made exceptions on a case-by-case basis anyway.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#47

Post by rgbrenner » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #22

bitL wrote: post #15

Sorry, so she raised comfort of some employees (which developer "on a mission to save a company" really needs free food instead of interesting challenges?) and decreased the ability to hire top talent by introducing other employee-unfriendly policies like banning remote work, i.e. working while living on Hawaii, giving superb motivation to stay at Yahoo and see it prosper. The rest seems more like a COO would do and…

I may get downvoted for saying this since it's not fashionable to say things like this but I will anyway: When a company is going down, the type of people you need is people who are enthusiastic and team players. The last type of people you need are competent yet not so much of a team player. It's because: 1. Pampering these people will only result in lowering rest of the team's morale. 2. When a company is going dow…

IMO the problem wasn't the employees.

The CEOs one job is to set the direction of the company. To create a vision of what a successful Yahoo looks like.

In this article, it talks about Mayer being responsive to email, turnstiles, food, etc. These are things a mid-level manager takes care of, not the CEO. And these things definitely are not a strategy.

All the way up until recently Yahoo wasn't even sure what type of company it is--media or tech. This is not possible if the CEO is clearly communicating what Yahoo is and should be.

If you want a company full of team players.. forget about this idea of dividing them into 1x vs 1000x. Make the vision of the company clear, so that people know what they're doing and what success looks like. When you get buy in of your strategy from the employees, it doesn't matter if they're 1x or 1000x developer. Everyone is working toward the same goal.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#48

Post by sluukkonen » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #28

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may get downvoted for saying this since it's not fashionable to say things like this but I will anyway: When a company is going down, the type of people you need is people who are enthusiastic and team players. The last type of people you need are competent yet not so much of a team player. It's because: 1. Pampering these people will only result in lowering rest of the team's morale. 2. When a company is going dow…

I believe what you actually need is to hire 2-3 teams of 10x developers/artists including a few visionaires and let them figure out projects that might one day become cash cows keeping company afloat (and give them massive stake in success). You need to both expose them to problems of the company so that they feel pressure as well as completely isolate them from toxic culture that brought down your company, so that t…

> Imagine if that lone guy at Microsoft didn't figure out trick with 286 protected mode that allowed Windows to survive and wasn't heard by top management - we would all be running OS/2 10 now.

I haven't heard this story before. Got a link?

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#49

Post by mgkimsal » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:25 PM UTC

soperj wrote: post #10

boterock wrote: post #7

I have to admit that when she started in Yahoo, they tried to do their best to not suck that much, but I think it was too late. In a time where internet and word of mouth can punish very hard bad PR/bad UX, they tried with Tumblr showing they weren't going to screw up anymore, but still they couldn't go back to what they were before.

and yet, Craigslist.

do you mean the UX on craigslist is bad? i find it to be fantastic. could be better on mobile screens, i'll grant, but it all still works, and is fast enough for what I need.

Re: What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold

#50

Post by tlogan » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 5:25 PM UTC

> Yahoo is a Failure, but Marissa is a Success

I have to be living in some alternate universe. Because in my universe, if you do not accomplish the goal (revenue grow) you failed. It could that the goal was too hard to achieve, maybe the goal was impossible to achieve, etc. But, at end of the day, she failed.

And as result of her failure people will lose their jobs :(