Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll • Hacker News Board

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#31

Post by heywire » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #7

Those extra fees at the very end infuriate me the most - it makes comparison shopping impossible. Thats including not giving me a shipping estimate until after I enter my shipping address and payment info. I want to know what I am going to pay before entering my payment details!! Hotel "resort fees" and cable or Internet subscriptions are the worst offenders, I honestly can't believe either is legal.

As someone currently paying a $22/day parking fee at a hotel, I know exactly what you mean. However, in my case it was a booking through Hotwire, so I didn't even know the hotel name in advance.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#32

Post by amelius » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

> Though perhaps the worst class of dark pattern is forced continuity, the common practice of collecting credit card details for a free trial and then automatically billing users for a paid service without an adequate reminder.

The fact that this is even possible makes me feel like I'm in the middle ages.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#33

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #7

Those extra fees at the very end infuriate me the most - it makes comparison shopping impossible. Thats including not giving me a shipping estimate until after I enter my shipping address and payment info. I want to know what I am going to pay before entering my payment details!! Hotel "resort fees" and cable or Internet subscriptions are the worst offenders, I honestly can't believe either is legal.

It actually is illegal in some parts of the world; the EU at least. These kind of hidden fees (for travel, hotels, etc.) are illegal now exactly because you should be able to compare prices, and offenders are getting reprimanded and fined for it.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#34

Post by Jean-Philipe » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #19

LeonM wrote: post #9

What about those 'free' WiFi access points that require you to login with Facebook for 'prevention of abuse', and then abuse your Facebook account by posting you were there.

Do you have an example of that? That can't be a thing.

One of the more famous co-working spaces in Berlin "St. Oberholz" does it - I was not amused.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#35

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #7

Those extra fees at the very end infuriate me the most - it makes comparison shopping impossible. Thats including not giving me a shipping estimate until after I enter my shipping address and payment info. I want to know what I am going to pay before entering my payment details!! Hotel "resort fees" and cable or Internet subscriptions are the worst offenders, I honestly can't believe either is legal.

> it makes comparison shopping impossible

Yes, that's the intention :(

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#36

Post by detaro » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #9

What about those 'free' WiFi access points that require you to login with Facebook for 'prevention of abuse', and then abuse your Facebook account by posting you were there.

Do they hide that? The ones I've seen have at least been honest about it: Internet for a Facebook-like.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#37

Post by dimino » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #9

What about those 'free' WiFi access points that require you to login with Facebook for 'prevention of abuse', and then abuse your Facebook account by posting you were there.

Facebook actually offers a "wifi authentication" feature to store proprietors. I ran into an instance of it while in Europe. Haven't seen it used in the US, though.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#38

Post by ryanlm » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:11 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #2

Not just the web either. This morning Cortana turned green and said "Oh hey!" in my taskbar. I clicked it and it gave me the regular interface - there was no alert or anything, they just wanted to boost their Cortana interaction numbers for the day. That's wasting my time and making it less likely that I will pay attention if there is an actual alert later.

It seems like your first problem is you're using Windows 10. You agreed to let them do what they want with THEIR operating system.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#39

Post by ethanbond » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #32

> Though perhaps the worst class of dark pattern is forced continuity, the common practice of collecting credit card details for a free trial and then automatically billing users for a paid service without an adequate reminder. The fact that this is even possible makes me feel like I'm in the middle ages.

Check out privacy.com! Easy burner CC numbers.

Re: Dark Patterns are designed to confuse and enroll

#40

Post by acdha » Thu, Jul 28, 2016, 3:16 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #21

grenoire wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of work put into it may not necessarily be worth it the gains, given how many different websites there are with varying implementations of these patterns.

Make it open source, and the community will probably maintain it. I'm sure that if a list of sites were given, fixes for the dark patterns would be submitted regularly.

> Make it open source, and the community will probably maintain it

… or fill the issue tracker with troubleshooting requests, demands that someone else code something they think needs to exist, long rants about whether something should or should not be included, etc. Open source maintenance is far from free.