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What “full stack” really means to the job market

chrismm.com

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Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicine's been a work in progress for centuries, doctors have done and believed all kinds of stuff we can call crazy today to figure out what works. Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death until we shot and hacked up enough people during wars to learn more accurate ways to treat a sore leg. We learned a lot from crude, violent and deadly experiments by Nazi doc…

> Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death Really? It doesn't seem likely to me that even a primitive medical person would amputate a leg because someone's knee hurts

[deleted]

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#42

>>> Whenever you have to google some error message or problem, read all the answers. Get as much context as possible on your problem, and do not be satisfied just with having come across a solution. This is a fatal flaw. Considering a TON of JS frameworks are so new, there just isn't a whole body of data on issues people are experiencing. I don't how many times when React started getting traction, I'd google an issue…

And then there's the converse problem with older frameworks like Rails: you google a question and you find three different answers, and now you have to figure out which of them work in your context (because your context can't be summarized by which version of Rails you have). If you're googling something about Linux it's even common to find that none of the answers fits your context. The more "full-stack" I get, the…

"Full Stack" == VHDL / BPMN / ITIL / PDDL / .this !!! ;-) (and of course, IGMP)

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then there's the converse problem with older frameworks like Rails: you google a question and you find three different answers, and now you have to figure out which of them work in your context (because your context can't be summarized by which version of Rails you have). If you're googling something about Linux it's even common to find that none of the answers fits your context. The more "full-stack" I get, the…

"Full Stack" == VHDL / BPMN / ITIL / PDDL / .this !!! ;-) (and of course, IGMP)

oops sorry I forgot to mention sharding!

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#44

>I have met many programmers that don’t like to code in their spare time, and that has reliably revealed them to be sub-par developers. Whatever little credibility you had up to this point you've just lost.

This opinion needs to fucking die in a fire already.

Is it really surprising that programmers that practise additional 10 to 15 hours a week improving their skills outside the scope of whatever project or tech stack they are limited to at work were better in this person's experience?

It would be pretty incredible if spending a lot of free time on challenging personal projects made someone a worse developer or had no impact at all.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicine's been a work in progress for centuries, doctors have done and believed all kinds of stuff we can call crazy today to figure out what works. Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death until we shot and hacked up enough people during wars to learn more accurate ways to treat a sore leg. We learned a lot from crude, violent and deadly experiments by Nazi doc…

> Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death Really? It doesn't seem likely to me that even a primitive medical person would amputate a leg because someone's knee hurts

[deleted]

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#46
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit reading here. This idea that programmers have to work 18-hour days just to avoid becoming substandard is idiotic. ps. if you have to spend all your free time studying to avoid losing your job, you never actually had any free time to begin with.

This idea that programmers have to work 18-hour days just to avoid becoming substandard is idiotic. Is it stupid because it isn't true or is it stupid because you don't want it to be true?

it's stupid because it isn't true.

the best and most productive programmers i know have lots of other hobbies and interests, both cerebral and physical. they are intellectually gifted people.

if you need to try that hard, maybe you're just not that smart. i learned that early, because i'm not that smart, and working 18 hours a day sure as hell didn't fix that.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#47

>I have met many programmers that don’t like to code in their spare time, and that has reliably revealed them to be sub-par developers. Whatever little credibility you had up to this point you've just lost.

The ability to automate is powerful. Anyone who doesn't find a use for it in their private life isn't just a mediocre developer; they're a mediocre human.

Sarah has a job as a web developer. She doesn't like programming very much, and avoids it at home. Her real passion is acting, so she joined a local theater troupe that performs plays at the community center. Every year they do a little Rocky Horror Picture Show event at the local theater.

Frank is a programmer at a big bank. He does most of his work in COBOL. The work is tedious and the hours are long, but Frank doesn't mind. Work is supposed to be hard. Besides, he makes plenty of money, enough money to help his only son meet his tuition. Frank never really knew what he wanted to do with his life. He just sort of ended up where he is, but his wife and son are happy, and that makes Frank happy.

Both of these people are mediocre developers and mediocre humans. They waste forty hours of every weekday developing skills that they won't use at home and only want so they can continue working at jobs they don't like. Turns out most people are mediocre. Those two aren't upset with what I posted, because they don't care, because they don't visit Hacker News, because they have lives.

Lets talk about Jeff. Jeff is a sixteen year old atheist who loves science. He gets high grades in all his math and science classes. He can even handle English pretty well. He just does the readings in class! He loves talking about how great science is. When he's not talking about science or playing league of legends he's browsing the internet looking at things like the "I Fucking Love Science" Facebook page or r/atheism. Jeff is a happy intelligent scientific young man. He also doesn't do any science. Turns out looking at inspiring quotes on a space background isn't science.[0] Jeff's a pretty useless kid, but he's sixteen, so we'll give him a break.

Mark is a student finishing his undergraduate degree in Computer Science, or maybe he's a man who's worked five years doing front-end development; doesn't matter. Mark is a programmer. He visits Hacker News to get the latest news, spends at least a couple hours a week on Reddit, keeps a small blog on Medium, hangs out with plenty of friends on the weekend, and enjoys a good beer. He doesn't use any of the stuff he's learned at school or work for his personal life. He doesn't host his resume on a personal website. He doesn't use regular expressions at home. He doesn't build a program to split games up into binary chunks so his kids can move games between computers without having to waste one of his expensive CDs.[1] He doesn't write any kind of automated backup scripts. He doesn't use anything like LaTex or org-mode for writing professional documents. He doesn't do anything like programming or related to programming in his spare time because it's boring and hard. Mark doesn't like it, but Mark doesn't care. He's making good money and there wasn't anything else he really wanted to do, but unlike old man Frank, Mark doesn't have an identity. Frank's family is what guides him. Frank thinks of himself as a family man and a provider. Mark thinks of himself as a programmer. Mark spends all his time on Hacker News, Reddit, and Medium reading and writing about software, but never ever coding for fun.

When I talk about mediocre humans, I'm talking about the Marks of the world. If you're wasting your time reading my spiteful comments and naive Medium blog posts, then you identify as a software guy, and if you're a software guy you should be honing your craft instead of whining about unfair expectations from employers. Don't think for a second you're just as good as everyone else. You're not.

[0] http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=youre_not_a_nerd

[1] This is an example program from the book Programming Python

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicine's been a work in progress for centuries, doctors have done and believed all kinds of stuff we can call crazy today to figure out what works. Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death until we shot and hacked up enough people during wars to learn more accurate ways to treat a sore leg. We learned a lot from crude, violent and deadly experiments by Nazi doc…

> Your sore knee analogy... probably really did end in wholesale unnecessary amputation and death Really? It doesn't seem likely to me that even a primitive medical person would amputate a leg because someone's knee hurts

We know amputations date back to stone age times - https://saesferd.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/prehistoric-ampute...

http://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/modern-treatments/a....

Lots of medical/all history will surprise you right into the 20th century and beyond -

http://www.cracked.com/article_15669_the-10-most-insane-medi...

#10 morphine cough syrup for kids

#9 mercury for ... everything

#8 heroin for coughs

#7 electric shocks to cure erectile dysfunction

#6 lobotomies for mental illnesses

#5 urine therapy ... lives on

#4 bloodletting for ... everything

#3 tapeworms for weight loss

#2 holes in skulls for headaches

#1 vaginal massages for female hysteria

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to automate is powerful. Anyone who doesn't find a use for it in their private life isn't just a mediocre developer; they're a mediocre human.

I wouldn't go so far as to call people who don't see the universal relevance of computation "mediocre humans," but they're certainly missing out on a lot. Computers generalize cognition and memory at scales far beyond what humans are capable of. It's ludicrous to only ever write code to shuffle around cyberwidgets.

I'm blunt because I feel strongly about it. They could be so much greater, but they willingly choose not to be. Then they lie to themselves about being just as good as anyone else despite being denied jobs.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea that programmers have to work 18-hour days just to avoid becoming substandard is idiotic. Is it stupid because it isn't true or is it stupid because you don't want it to be true?

it's stupid because it isn't true. the best and most productive programmers i know have lots of other hobbies and interests, both cerebral and physical. they are intellectually gifted people. if you need to try that hard, maybe you're just not that smart. i learned that early, because i'm not that smart, and working 18 hours a day sure as hell didn't fix that.

>if you need to try that hard

Do people who program in their spare time usually work 18 hour days?

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