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Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

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Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#131

Post by dragonwriter »

soperj wrote: post #129
andrewla wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "convenient" you're really saying "inexpensive". At least in the US, HBO NOW is only $14.99, which for a season of a TV show is not ridiculous (by comparison to what other shows cost on DVD or streaming through Amazon), made less ridiculous by the fact that you actually have access to all seasons of that show. As for whether it's stealing or not, it seems difficult to rationalize it. Is sneaking in to se…

In Canada you can't get HBO Now without a tv subscription, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I think you are confusing HBO GO (the TV subscription companion streaming app) with HBO Now (the independent-of-TV-subscription streaming service); it is more accurate to say "HBO Now is not available in Canada".

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO_Now

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#132

Post by soundwave106 »

ideonexus wrote: post #13

I think the most fascinating aspect of this article is the conflict between preservation and curation. The world of books is no different than the world of content online: it's mostly low-quality and not worth the reader's time. The authors' observe that for book preservation, building a curated library of high-quality texts demands a certain amount of exclusivity in who's doing the curation. At the same time, this e…

To me it depends on the meaning of where they are applying quality.

For content to be preserved I would personally hope that the direction is more on the preservation angle, personally.. There is very little cost for storing information these days, so there's no real reason to me not to cast a wide net on exactly what content is archived. There is no single good definition of "quality content" after all; even the works considered "top quality" can shift over time, plus there are people out there who really get into niches that a group of curators seeking "top quality content" might miss. (Some of these niches after all deliberately include kitschy or trashy "low quality" content.)

From what I gather from the article, the barrier was more on the technical side of preservation. This is easier to see: the "barrier to entry" is more making sure an e-book isn't fuzzy low-resolution junk, or making sure the e-book has correct title, author, etc.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#133

Post by clock_tower »

icebraining wrote: post #109
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious that this argument only ever applies to the intangible bit patterns that define creative works, but never to the equally intangible bit patterns that define money. If I copy the numbers in a very rich person's bank account to my bank account, I haven't stolen anything from them. All I've done is made a copy of some information. And yet one kind of copying generates rants about the cultural value of free distr…

either you have a free economy, in which case you make every damn thing free, or you accept that rules of ownership are necessary and that the output of labour has value independent of the ease with which it can be copied. Rules of ownership are necessary for rivalrous goods, and not for others. Citing Thomas Jefferson, "He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who l…

Jefferson's talking about memetics -- about the spread of ideas and ways of thinking. I don't see how IP law interferes with meme competition; and I don't see how meme competition justifies pirating entertainment (which requires large investments in visuals, audio, acting or voice-acting, computer programming, and so on, all of which the spread of ideas doesn't need).

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#134

Post by uola »

muddyrivers wrote: post #46

I have family members who are writers. By association, we know many writers. They are in a dilemma. From talking to them, I think they agree, in principle, that books ought to be "distributed, [...], spread abroad, given to all, given cheaply, given at cost price, given for nothing." They are book-lovers in essence. In reality, most writers can hardly make a living from writing. Their book deals are essentially decid…

I don't think yesteryear's industry where only a few people could get published, or even find the time, knowledge and/or motivation to write, was particularly fair. We're in the information age, a lot of people can write, you can distribute things to almost anyone.

It's not good enough to just have the skills anymore you need to have context that an audience can relate to. It used to be that you either wrote quality and let the audience find you, as with books, or you wrote quantity and convinced the audience that you were relevant, like in news papers. Today you need both.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#135

Post by chris_va »

hiou wrote: post #42
chris_va wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After I purchase something, am I not entitled to do what I wish with it, including giving it away? There is clear precedent that you are not. In this case, HBO is a business trying to make profit. It spends enormous amounts of money producing shows. Giving away a copy of their product for free arguably reduces their ability to stay solvent. Thus, theft.

So if I start a pizza place across the street from another pizza place I'm a thief? Or even worse gave away free pizza!? The horror. Didn't realize it was a basic human right for a business to make a profit. Nor did I realize it was the governments responsibility to ensure a business makes a profit. Enlightening stuff I'm learning today.

Sarcasm aside, I think you missed the point of my statement.

If you illegally take away income from a business, it can be classified as theft. If you do something else illegal that doesn't take away income, it would be hard to classify it as theft. Apologies if I was cryptic.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#136

Post by aluhut »

segmondy wrote: post #12
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

> someone's else own work

It's not like the person would have oome up with whatever without their environment. He is in a constant flow of input and draws his art from that. This goes for every kind of art so the product in the end is as well a product of the environment as by the guy who decided to fix it on the medium.

The owner has the right sure. It's given to him by another product of the environment a certain portion of people agreed upon some time ago.

It doesn't make it right or some kind of physics law. Especially not in the digital world where there is no "stealing". There is more of it after the act.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#137

Post by Wildgoose »

6d6b73 wrote: post #111
Wildgoose wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be ridiculous. A better analogy would be that the museum sold JPEGs of a work of art you wanted to use as a desktop background, but refused to sell one to a different state. So instead you downloaded a copy of the photograph.

And you think JPEGS are free? It takes hardware, software and some skills. Someone needs to spend time creating them. They have the right to refuse to sell you whatever they created. That refusal does not negate their right to their work.

You're still missing the point.

They refused my money.

They were happy for me to buy the work second-hand and ship it at great expense (and environmental damage) across the world to my home where I could have then scanned it into an electronic format.

All with NO further recompense for the author.

All I wanted to do was pay the author for their work in return for a downloaded copy of the next volume, just like I had bought the first volume, and just like they were happily selling it to other people.

Instead I was redlined on the basis of my nationality.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#138

Post by clock_tower »

unicornporn wrote: post #57
segmondy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

"We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth. We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity. Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are all bas…

No matter in cyberspace? I guess their servers live in the cloud. ;)

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#139

Post by Wildgoose »

unethical_ban wrote: post #108
orcdork wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone refusing to sell you something is not a permission to steal it. (I do agree that the situation is ridiculous though)

If they wouldn't have gotten my money anyway, and I am copying the work, it is not theft.

Ah, but I wanted to give them my money. I do recognise their right to be recompensed for their work. However if they then decline to exercise that right....
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