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The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

nicholaswindsorhoward.com

331–340 of 440 posts

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#331
post #63

This essay is nothing more than the authors opinion (which there is nothing wrong with) presented as fact (completely take umbrage with this). Looking at the authors website, the current design of Apple's UI elements are not to their taste. An example would be this; http://www.nicholaswindsorhoward.com/blog-directory/2016/1/2... The odd idea is interesting, but it's massively regressive.

Yeah. It's particularly annoying how he notes in passing that since 2013 "almost all software designers, including Apple’s" have started to prefer the flat style, and yet he still presents his own opinion as objectively correct.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#332
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they make their own internal testing and don't provide links to their "papers"? How about that?

Quite possible, do you think they they lead the design primarily with usability or fashion?

I think they take both into account, as they should.

Usability is great and all, but if your products dont sell because they're perceived as unfashionable it's not that good...

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#333

The camera icon is not just a picture of the physical world object. It is pretty universal symbol for taking pictures. When the same symbol is used in so many places, even people who have never used the physical object resembling the icon, will recognize its meaning. In my view the reason behind many of these user interface changes is not really improved usability. The simple reason is that no matter how good interfa…

[deleted]

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#334
post #120
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same logic you can dismiss every critique. Not everything new is an improvement.

Change for change's sake disgusts me. It is rampant in Apple's macos, iOS, as well as Google's Android.

And yet Apple changes surprisingly little between versions.

And usually to assemble piecemeal some functionality related to a long term master-plan (usually of the "All your Apple devices as a digital hub" category).

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#335
The irony here is this design critique takes place on one of the ugliest sites on the internet.

Also, everything he points out is to the benefit of a society that's making it's first steps into computing using GUIs. Once you've accomplished that first introduction, you optimize for efficiency. Do you really need to sit there and parse an icon's details every time before you actually click the icon and move on to the actual task you intended to do?

I'm sure Apple considers a lot before making design changes, from UX efficiency to cross-platform aesthetic consistency to iPhone battery life (does displaying white icons encourage darker backgrounds which ultimately have more pixels using lower energy to light up or some such nuance?), which this article ignores entirely.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#336
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 40 years ago, the majority of people using computers knew what they were doing. You think that 10 and 20 year olds growing up with computers and even smartphones available for all of their life, know less of computers than people in the past? Even a 7 year old that plays games can almost run circles around a 1980s propellerhead computer programmer in using a GUI. Compared to regular people (e.g. office workers) fro…

I think they know less than the people who were using computers back then. The difference is of course that today computers are used by more of the general public for communication, office, and media consumption, rather than (only) bunch of tech savvy specialists. Most of my generation and the generation that followed barely have a concept of a computer beyond "press the thing to make things happen". They know no mor…

>As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer...

That is patently false. There are hard core GUI users, from VFX and 3D artists to DAW and NLE operators, graphic designers and many more, than run circles around any "command line" person for the tasks they actually do.

Just as there are tons of programmers using Visual Studio and other GUI platforms, than can program far more efficiently with the intelligent autocomplete, integrated debuggers, profilers, and such, than some CLI-jockeys who think they are more efficient with their pimped Emacs or Vim.

Is Rob Pike and his GUI editor/environment a "novice/consumer"? What about tons of excellent Windows programmers? What about Notch?

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#337
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they know less than the people who were using computers back then. The difference is of course that today computers are used by more of the general public for communication, office, and media consumption, rather than (only) bunch of tech savvy specialists. Most of my generation and the generation that followed barely have a concept of a computer beyond "press the thing to make things happen". They know no mor…

> As for running circles around people while using a GUI, while I accept there are specialised fields and exceptions that disprove the rule, outside of marketing presentations I just don't see it happen. As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer... I wonder. Every time I see a colleague usi…

>I wonder. Every time I see a colleague using command line to do git operations I get itchy and think to myself "oh, come on! I could've done this in gui in seconds"

A lot of the CLI usage feels fast because its busywork.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#338
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for running circles around people while using a GUI, while I accept there are specialised fields and exceptions that disprove the rule, outside of marketing presentations I just don't see it happen. As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer... I wonder. Every time I see a colleague usi…

Your colleague doesn't use completion? To me, using CLI is like having a conversation, with much richer vocabulary, than GUI. That's just pointing at things.

Would you rather have a conversation with your car "left 20 degrees, now right, slow down a little, whats the speed atm?" or just turn the wheel and press some pedals?

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#339
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 40 years ago, the majority of people using computers knew what they were doing. You think that 10 and 20 year olds growing up with computers and even smartphones available for all of their life, know less of computers than people in the past? Even a 7 year old that plays games can almost run circles around a 1980s propellerhead computer programmer in using a GUI. Compared to regular people (e.g. office workers) fro…

> You think that 10 and 20 year olds growing up with computers and even smartphones available for all of their life, know less of computers than people in the past? Yes. Aptitude with screwing around with a GUI isn't very relevant. 40 years ago, computers were at best used by clerk type people for specific tasks at a terminal. Accountants were using tabulation machines, written materials were on IBM selectrics. The p…

>Yes. Aptitude with screwing around with a GUI isn't very relevant.

It is relevant to actual stuff they want done.

Unless they are programmers aptitude in screwing around with cli commands isn't very relevant.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#340
Skeuomorphic icons are probably OK, but skeumorphic behavior is horrific. Consider the awfulness of the Mountain Lion era address book and calendar that tried to emulate the behavior of physical objects by imitating their limitations. That, for me, was the nadir of OS X usability. It might have been great for someone who'd literally never seen a computer before, but anyone who wanted to navigate a calendar without flipping through months one page at a time had a real fight on their hands.

If you want an icon that looks like a physical object, OK. I can probably live with that. But the moment you want to extend that to making the app act like the object its icon represents, you've lost me. Perhaps Ive et al decided that having a realistic Notes icon attached to a non-notebook-like app was more confusing than keeping the old one? That certainly seems justifiable.

Also: who cares what the Safari compass looks like? To me, "compass" means "compass". It's never represented a safari to me (not that "safari-the-adventure" represented "Safari-the-browser"). What would that skeumorphic icon be anyway - a rifle?

This is what we used to have: http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/30/skeuomorphic-design-or-one... . I couldn't have been happier when Mavericks ditched all that. It wasn't perfect, to be sure, but it went a long way to restoring artificially-lost usability.

The article feels to me as though the author is caught up in nostalgia. That's fine, but not mistake "I liked it that way" for "that way was objectively better".

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