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UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

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Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#221
post #26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It provides a sort of scapegoat for attacks. The government can't be seen as doing nothing against the threat of terrorism, so when the adversary uses encryption to cover their tracks, the government can point and say 'we did our best to outlaw their method of communication'.

It must be this. Even politicians will be greatly impacted. Since anything can be used against them. Even the most innocent text message if leaked. And none of them is guaranteed to have control over it.

That's why they will probably pass exception laws that allow political elites to use encryption and the tyranny will be inevitable.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#222
post #209

Two can play at this game. Surely folks here at HN can create something that is not technically or legally encryption, but accomplishes the same goal.

...until it gets legally declared as encryption as well.

Fair enough. Maybe it's like an arms race, or a shell game. but you are probably right.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Every time I bring that up, I get down-voted due to the cognitive dissonance that folks have with their fondle-slabs. Now people are being conditioned to think it's normal for their microphone to always be on.

To be fair, calling them "fondle-slabs" can't be helping your argument.

I got that from The Register and I agree with their assessment. I can't walk 50 feet without seeing someone with their face buried in their phone, even while they are walking around town, oblivious to the world around them.

It actually reminds of an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where the ship was commandeered after the crew were "drugged" by a hypnotic game. I believe the episode was "The Game".

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I appreciate you're playing devil's advocate, so I'm holding back. And if his views were genuine, would you then be rude? I find this implication troubling and corrosive to open discussion. > It is the media attention given to the situation, not the situation itself, that is terrifying. Europe is extremely safe and does not have a security problem. I couldn't disagree more. If such incidents were rare two decades a…

> If such incidents were rare two decades ago and increasingly common today, then clearly something is going wrong That is just plainly wrong. In the 70ies, 80ies and early 90ies we had more terrorists and more terrorist attacks, that killed people. There was the (P)IRA in Northern Ireland, the ETA in Spain, the FLNC in France and the RAF in Germany, and these were only the most notorious groups. All of them laid dow…

Two decades ago was a very quiet time for Europe in terms of terrorist attacks. The groups you cite, which are anyhow a totally different problem than Islamist terror, had mostly died down. The number of Islamist terrorist groups in the world has been increasing since the 80s and attacks on the West have been rising again since around the turn of the century. The recent spike is severe. What's most alarming about the current wave is that they are lone wolf attacks that defy our traditional capabilities to uncover plots before they are executed. ISIS has decentralized terrorism.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#225
post #5

> “Doors are now almost ubiquitous and are the default for most houses and buildings. If we do not provide for access to people's bathrooms when it is necessary and proportionate to do so then we must simply accept that there can be rooms beyond the reach of the law,” There are well-established and functional methods for extending law into areas that you can't see all the time. You don't need to ban encryption, in ex…

The state's enforcers do not fear doors, because they have boots for kicking, and stout legs to fill them. Even the heavier doors can be breached by prybar, ram, cutting torch, or explosive. But when your bathroom door is protected by 256-bit encryption, the peace of your metaphorical deuce-dropping is (statistically) guaranteed until such time as the sun leaves the main sequence and devours the Earth. The states con…

How love how quickly this escalated, have you considered doing a comedy act?

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state's enforcers do not fear doors, because they have boots for kicking, and stout legs to fill them. Even the heavier doors can be breached by prybar, ram, cutting torch, or explosive. But when your bathroom door is protected by 256-bit encryption, the peace of your metaphorical deuce-dropping is (statistically) guaranteed until such time as the sun leaves the main sequence and devours the Earth. The states con…

How love how quickly this escalated, have you considered doing a comedy act?

My ability to speak on stage before an audience ranges dangerously close to Harpo, Marceau, and Teller. I might be able to write for someone else, though.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#227
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will find most states promote an 'us vs. them' attitude, especially in times of hardship. And conversely that both states and religions promote harmony and communion during times of plenty. I'd argue for example that Christianity is only peaceful these days because the states that are predominantly Christian are also the most prosperous. And, if you want an example of what atheists do during times of hard…

> And, if you want an example of what atheists do during times of hardship, look to soviet Russia or even Nazi Germany. There's nothing about being an atheist that promotes hatred. There isn't a holy text for Atheism that tells people to believe or do things. Besides, it's a tired argument without merit: https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/the-a...

I wasn't arguing that it was their atheism that they committed atrocities in the name of - rather that you don't need religion to commit atrocities. That article and, I think, your position are pursuing the same fallacy but in the opposite direction.

Hitler had his ideology, Stalin his manifestos etc - they all had their own, unique 'holy book' or similar that justified their crimes and it would be a mistake as you've said to somehow link them all as being from a common position.

And yet Hitchens and possibly you do the same thing in the opposite direction: despite the average ISIS member having as much in common as your, say, average US muslim as a nazi might have to a 1917-era russian communist (next to nothing) - you are arguing that their religion, not their idealogy is at fault.

You might argue that the various holy books of faiths cause a problem: for as much as the bible and the (far better written) quran espouse love and joy etc etc they both also include a fair amount of violence. But these books have been rewritten, multiple times, and are constantly being reinterpreted. Blaming the text for the actions of the reader seems harsh.

I guess ultimately the problem I have is that people who say religion is the problem and it should be banned seem to me to be worryingly similar to those that said computer games should be banned in the 90s. A very small amount of people committed atrocities, and all of a sudden it was the games 'promoting violence and hatred' that needed to be stopped, rather than people confronting the more nebulous and difficult issue of culture surrounding the criminals that made them more susceptible to hate and sociopathy.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#228
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are getting a flow of immigrants because the civil war in Syria did not stop, and instead rage on and on destroying the infrastructure and economy there that is needed to sustain the civilian population there. We are squeamish because we do not want to send young men and women to die in some godforsaken country, doing god know what for god knows how long. Remember the last time that happened? Oh yes, the Iraqi occ…

It's a misconception to think that the current wave of migration is just because of Syria. Or because of war in Iraq. The people who come on boats to Europe are mostly not Syrians. They are from the vast lands stretching from Senegal to Morocco to Congo to Egypt to Syria to Iraq to Pakistan to India to Bangladesh, and they are not travelling to Europe because one particular place is very bad; they are travelling righ…

Is there a source?

I wasn't aware of that fact.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#229
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first line of your response very concisely illustrates my growing unease with discussions related to privacy on hacker news. The fact that you're having to "hold back" is sadly indicative of why debates on sensitive topics like this are turning into echo chambers. I suspect that many who hold the minority view keep quiet to avoid being yelled at. I don't intend to take sides here. I've only ever come here to read…

Some excellent points, and I'm happy to be challenged on my behaviour. I didn't mean I was holding back from something sinister, but from making detailed and thorough arguments. Because I was only highlighting some issues with the Devil's advocate position, I used short points with rhetorical flourishes. I agree none of this was conducive to a well-reasoned and objective debate. Often I don't consider I'm writing for…

Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

Re: UK surveillance bill includes powers to limit end-to-end encryption

#230
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, if you want an example of what atheists do during times of hardship, look to soviet Russia or even Nazi Germany. There's nothing about being an atheist that promotes hatred. There isn't a holy text for Atheism that tells people to believe or do things. Besides, it's a tired argument without merit: https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/the-a...

I wasn't arguing that it was their atheism that they committed atrocities in the name of - rather that you don't need religion to commit atrocities. That article and, I think, your position are pursuing the same fallacy but in the opposite direction. Hitler had his ideology, Stalin his manifestos etc - they all had their own, unique 'holy book' or similar that justified their crimes and it would be a mistake as you'v…

> I guess ultimately the problem I have is that people who say religion is the problem and it should be banned

I did NOT say banned. That way lies madness. Freedom of religion

However, it should be treated with disdain and scorn by the majority. It should not be a safe refuge for the unthinking.

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