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Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

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Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#61

Post by seren »

imgabe wrote: post #20
seren wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about identity theft ?

The victim of identity theft is deprived of their credit rating, reputation, etc. Credit is a resource that gets used up as you use more of it or take out loans and don't pay them back. Making a copy of a digital file has no similar effect on the original owner of the file.

Even if, you leave the original in a pristine state, the fact that multiple copies are available and can be used (for good or nefarious purpose), dilutes or erodes the value of the original.

And this is true for both digital content or something as intangible as an identity.

So I am not really convinced by the simple argument that since the original still exists untouched, everything is fine. Yes, this is surely convenient and better for the original author/owner/creator, but not enough to say nothing harmful happened.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#62

Post by globuous »

The_Hoff wrote: post #3

One sees this kind of thing within niche P2P communities. For example, on a popular BitTorrent tracker dedicated to music, one often sees indie artists "leak" their content. Consequently, the artists receive more recognition and appreciation for their work. I'm not claiming that piracy is victimless, nor that P2P sharing is more beneficial to the preservation of arts/academia than it is harmful. There is, however, so…

I believe it, this reminds me of this rapper called Benefit that got popular using Napster:

'Benefit is up there with MF Doom when it comes to being mysterious. He popped onto the scene in the early 2000's when Napster first blew up, when (by a longshot) he won a rap contest out of over 1000 MC's put on by Napster. This made him the first MC to truly use the internet to blow up (seems like forever ago, huh?). He never really put an album together, just happened to make enough tracks out of his $18 setup to release 2002's Benefit, which is filled with too many dope tracks. ' [0]

I can see how even without the help of a contest, indie artists could use sharring platforms to get traction.

[0] http://djbooth.net/news/entry/underground-rappers-vol-3

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#63

Post by Nullabillity »

6d6b73 wrote: post #21
guelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

Is it theft to sit and listen right outside an open-air concert?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#64

Post by Mimu »

segmondy wrote: post #12
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

You make me think about that commercial you couldn't skip on DVD. "YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR" Bitch if I could copy a car on street for free I would do it.

Not to mention the only people seeing that fucking clip were the ones that bought the DVD. Way to ensure returning customers, well done.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#65

Post by vinceguidry »

6d6b73 wrote: post #10
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

It is theft whether you like it or not. They don't have to provide you with the service if they don't think you're not the right customer or if you can't afford it. You are in no way entitled to watching that single TV show if you don't have the subscription.

Let's say I made a video. If I wanted to sell you a performance of that video and not your brother, and your brother manages to watch it anyway, fine, an offense has been committed.

But what if I sold the publishing rights to that video to a corporation who is bound by law to maximize revenue for my benefit? I've declared by releasing my video for public consumption that my interest is purely commercial.

That corporation does not generally have the legal ability to restrict who buys the rights to watch my video. Let's say the corporation decides to price viewings at $100 a pop. Your brother pirating my video and sharing it with his friends would arguably be doing more good for me than the alternative of fewer people watching it and me making a somewhat smaller amount of money.

Now the ethics are way more muddled. I'm not saying copyright is a bad thing or that infringement is a good thing. What I'm saying is that technological, cultural, and legal hurdles have made the content distribution market non-efficient and therefore non-optimal for content producers. It's virtually impossible for pricing mechanisms to maximize revenue, so there's always going to be situations where piracy makes sense because the content creators won't be able to make money on every viewing, but still derives a benefit from broader consumption anyway.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#66

Post by angersock »

6d6b73 wrote: post #47
gakada wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a breach of the contract between designer and the company. If you quote someone a rate, they agree, you do the work, but they don't pay you, then you can sue them regardless of whether a copyrightable work was created. Copyright infringement without breach of contract is more like people stealing the Transmit logo https://panic.com/extras/ripoff/

Isn't it breach of contract when you copy tv show, when it clearly states that copying of that show is prohibited? When you buy that dvd, book or whatever it is, you agree to the 'terms' which usually say - copy in any form shape or size prohibited.

Shitty click wrap that nobody should care about. Why are you bootlicking so hard?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#67

Post by jonathansizz »

Book piracy as a way to get free stuff instead of paying for it.

These rationalizations for ripping people off are pathetic; just admit you do it because it's quick, easy and there's little chance of getting caught.

You aren't a freedom fighter, and if you actually paused the trackers long enough to think about what you're doing, you'd have to admit to yourself that what you're doing is simply wrong. At least be honest enough with yourself to admit that.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#68

Post by Nullabillity »

6d6b73 wrote: post #47
gakada wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a breach of the contract between designer and the company. If you quote someone a rate, they agree, you do the work, but they don't pay you, then you can sue them regardless of whether a copyrightable work was created. Copyright infringement without breach of contract is more like people stealing the Transmit logo https://panic.com/extras/ripoff/

Isn't it breach of contract when you copy tv show, when it clearly states that copying of that show is prohibited? When you buy that dvd, book or whatever it is, you agree to the 'terms' which usually say - copy in any form shape or size prohibited.

And presumably, if I pirate something, I never entered into that contract to begin with.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#69

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

6d6b73 wrote: post #21
guelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

Sure, and when I don't hire you, that means that you won't have money to buy food, so you will starve. So, I am not murdering you in the sense that I am shooting you, but I am murdering you in the sense that I am not hiring you.

Words have commonly accepted definitions, and copyright or contract violation simply does not fall under theft. "I think it's bad, theft is bad, therefore, it's theft" just is an incoherent argument. Just as not hiring you is not murder, even if it in the end were to somehow contribute to you dying.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#70

Post by snovv_crash »

6d6b73 wrote: post #50
deepnet wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legal to view something, regardless of whether the source is licensed. Copyright only prevents producing and distributing unlicensed copies, i.e. uploading or sharing - it does not cover viewing or downloading. You may not agree with the law but nonetheless there is no prohibition against viewing an unauthorised copy. -- can't reply below ? So replying here. > as legal as buying a stolen tv. Buying stolen goods…

It's about as legal as buying a stolen TV.

I think a knockoff TV would be a better analogy.
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