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Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

computationalculture.net

41–50 of 163 posts

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#41
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

If a graphic designer is hired to do something for someone, it is usually agreed beforehand how much money he will get for the job. If he doesn't get the money, it is simply a breach of agreement.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#42
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft deprives the owner of something. Making a copy leaves the original intact. Technically HBO would not be providing them with the service. HBO provided the service to someone who paid for it. That person then made a digital copy and gave it to someone else. HBO is not involved in the second transaction. After I purchase something, am I not entitled to do what I wish with it, including giving it away?

> After I purchase something, am I not entitled to do what I wish with it, including giving it away? There is clear precedent that you are not. In this case, HBO is a business trying to make profit. It spends enormous amounts of money producing shows. Giving away a copy of their product for free arguably reduces their ability to stay solvent. Thus, theft.

So if I start a pizza place across the street from another pizza place I'm a thief? Or even worse gave away free pizza!? The horror. Didn't realize it was a basic human right for a business to make a profit. Nor did I realize it was the governments responsibility to ensure a business makes a profit. Enlightening stuff I'm learning today.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#43

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

No, it isn't "stealing". You're not depriving them of the content, you're copying it. And you're not even depriving them of the price they charge to access that content, unless you would've bought it had it not been available through piracy. And that's I think really the exception, not the rule.

I know I download a hell of a lot of movies, tv shows, etc. that I would definitely never watch if they were not available easily like that.

As for the moral aspect of this, I personally consider that the advantages to society provided by the free, widespread availability of cultural material far outweighs the inconvenience to content distributors & creators; moreover, I consider downloading content 'illegaly' like that to be a form of social protest; to be practiced until their outdated, absurd model changes. Part of this is certainly me rationalizing my behaviour, but I genuinely believe that most of it is not.

And when content is available without any form of DRM and with a minimal amount of intermediaries, I always pay for it (a good example is games through gog.com). Personally, I'll stop downloading illegaly when all content is available like that. And no, netflix doesn't cut it; I want the same, convenient service I get through piracy: a mkv/mp4/whatever without any form of DRM that I can store, read on any of my devices, copy, backup, etc.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#44
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is theft whether you like it or not. They don't have to provide you with the service if they don't think you're not the right customer or if you can't afford it. You are in no way entitled to watching that single TV show if you don't have the subscription.

Theft deprives the owner of something. Making a copy leaves the original intact. Technically HBO would not be providing them with the service. HBO provided the service to someone who paid for it. That person then made a digital copy and gave it to someone else. HBO is not involved in the second transaction. After I purchase something, am I not entitled to do what I wish with it, including giving it away?

The answer is no, you are not entitled to do that. Whether or not you agree with them, laws were brought in that stop you from doing that for the sole purpose of protecting the copyright owners.

The laws were brought in, because people were abusing the ability to copy digital media and profiting off of it. Essentially making money off of someone else's hard work. That is what the laws are there to stop.

The unfortunate side effect is that even legitimate copying of digital media is being restricted, and while that is a bummer, it also isn't the end of the world.

But in some ways, you are just trying to shift the entitlement from the person wanting a free ride back onto yourself, suggesting that you should be able to do whatever you want with someone else's work (which it still is, even though you have a copy of it). That simply isn't true.

It is no different to Intellectual Property. If you started photo copying and distributing Pokemon cards, you and others would be benefiting from someone elses work, without them getting compensation for it. Even if you're not profiting monetarily, those other people are certainly profiting in some way.

I am in no way a copyright evangelist, but the argument that just because you didn't deprive them of it means that it is okay just doesn't reside in reality. I agree that in most cases, torrenting or streaming something for free when you should be paying is not a big deal. But to pretend it's ethical is a stretch.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#45
post #33

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

There is no law prohibiting 'watching infringing material'. One may think downloading is immoral or should be illegal, I am simply stating there is no law against it. Thus you can and do obtain it legally, so long as you don't publish or share the work. The original uploader or unlicensed streaming site or seller of unlicensed DVD copies is commiting copyright infringement - the downloader or viewer is not. Drug user…

> Drug users are punished with posession

That's a counter-example. Drug punishments aren't related to this at all, but we do charge people for possession AND we charge people for distribution.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#46
I have family members who are writers. By association, we know many writers. They are in a dilemma. From talking to them, I think they agree, in principle, that books ought to be "distributed, [...], spread abroad, given to all, given cheaply, given at cost price, given for nothing." They are book-lovers in essence.

In reality, most writers can hardly make a living from writing. Their book deals are essentially decided by if the book will sell. For published writers, the biggest factor in publishers' minds is the selling history of her/his previous books. So writers are trying all the means to boost the sale of their books. As far as I know, most writers hate book tours, public readings, etc. They will, however, fly 10 hours to another city, give two readings, each of which may have only 10 people show up, so as to sell several copy of their books, as long as the publishers can cover the travel costs. Most writers are poor and can't afford the travels at their own expense.

So writers really want people to buy their books, not to become rich, simply as a way to support, so that they can afford to write. Writer friends buy each other's books once they are published, as a means to support, both in spirit and in finance. I remember once my family member gave a reading to promote her newly published book. After the reading, a writer friend came to say bye to us, empty-handed. She didn't say anything, but with a very apologetically expression. We know she was having a hard time financially. That expression really hurts.

The financial burden hits hard when writers have family and children. The majority of writers hate teaching, as far as I know. Whenever there is an opening position in a college's writing program, there would be hundreds of applications, including some well-known writers, even although they are aware that teaching will take a big part of their time, their energy from them to work on their own novels, their own books. It seems the cost of context switch between teaching and writing are very high for most writers. A well-known writer, whom I believe most educated people should at least have heard of, can't work on his own books at all when he is teaching. So he has to negotiate with the college to teach only one semester per year, so he can write in the other semester without teaching obligations. I wish his books have higher sale number, so that he can get higher book deals. Thus he doesn't have to teach.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#47
post #36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

That would be a breach of the contract between designer and the company. If you quote someone a rate, they agree, you do the work, but they don't pay you, then you can sue them regardless of whether a copyrightable work was created. Copyright infringement without breach of contract is more like people stealing the Transmit logo https://panic.com/extras/ripoff/

Isn't it breach of contract when you copy tv show, when it clearly states that copying of that show is prohibited? When you buy that dvd, book or whatever it is, you agree to the 'terms' which usually say - copy in any form shape or size prohibited.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#48
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have the right to view something if someone who created that wants you to view it. If they say that you can view it after you pay, that's their right. If you pay and are allowed to view it you can describe it in any way you want to other people, but you are not allowed to spend that time you had for viewing it to make a copy of it and show it to some other people that did not pay the original author. If you…

It is legal to view something, regardless of whether the source is licensed. Copyright only prevents producing and distributing unlicensed copies, i.e. uploading or sharing - it does not cover viewing or downloading. You may not agree with the law but nonetheless there is no prohibition against viewing an unauthorised copy. -- can't reply below ? So replying here. > as legal as buying a stolen tv. Buying stolen goods…

How is downloading not creating a copy? There was one file before you downloaded it, now there are two.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#50
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have the right to view something if someone who created that wants you to view it. If they say that you can view it after you pay, that's their right. If you pay and are allowed to view it you can describe it in any way you want to other people, but you are not allowed to spend that time you had for viewing it to make a copy of it and show it to some other people that did not pay the original author. If you…

It is legal to view something, regardless of whether the source is licensed. Copyright only prevents producing and distributing unlicensed copies, i.e. uploading or sharing - it does not cover viewing or downloading. You may not agree with the law but nonetheless there is no prohibition against viewing an unauthorised copy. -- can't reply below ? So replying here. > as legal as buying a stolen tv. Buying stolen goods…

It's about as legal as buying a stolen TV.
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