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Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

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Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#31

Post by 6d6b73 »

wolfgke wrote: post #26
segmondy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

Not allowing to redistribute data is a form of censorship.

As is creating something and keeping it only to yourself isn't it?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#32

Post by jackfrodo »

danthejam wrote: post #25
y7 wrote: post #2

Article from 2014, which looks at people engaging in digital book piracy not as thieves but as modern-day librarians or collectors, who are focused more on preservation than providing easy access to the materials. Mainly, the authors write about various online libraries and how they're organized, with a small amount of technical details. I found it a somewhat interesting article, but I'd hoped they'd go a little more…

There was a very nice spanish community that would scan/ocr books and convert them into epubs. They had very high standards and their forums were full with epub documentation, best practices, boilerplate/skeleton files, scripts, etc. To the point their curated epubs were better than those of some publishers. It all died when one of the founders was arrested. Edit: it seems my information was incorrect, the site's own…

Sounds awesome. Any links to remaining documentation?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#33

Post by deepnet »

tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

There is no law prohibiting 'watching infringing material'. One may think downloading is immoral or should be illegal, I am simply stating there is no law against it.

Thus you can and do obtain it legally, so long as you don't publish or share the work.

The original uploader or unlicensed streaming site or seller of unlicensed DVD copies is commiting copyright infringement - the downloader or viewer is not.

Drug users are punished with posession, not as smugglers or distributors. Equivalenty downloaders are not infringing copyright.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#34

Post by lately »

segmondy wrote: post #12
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

People just want to find some noble reason for their behaviour.

Pirating is wrong, but I do it because I don't have the money to spend.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#35

Post by Smoofer »

imgabe wrote: post #14
6d6b73 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is theft whether you like it or not. They don't have to provide you with the service if they don't think you're not the right customer or if you can't afford it. You are in no way entitled to watching that single TV show if you don't have the subscription.

Theft deprives the owner of something. Making a copy leaves the original intact. Technically HBO would not be providing them with the service. HBO provided the service to someone who paid for it. That person then made a digital copy and gave it to someone else. HBO is not involved in the second transaction. After I purchase something, am I not entitled to do what I wish with it, including giving it away?

Are you not depriving HBO of the money from the subscription you would presumably buy if not for the free copy you obtained?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#36

Post by gakada »

6d6b73 wrote: post #21
guelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

That would be a breach of the contract between designer and the company. If you quote someone a rate, they agree, you do the work, but they don't pay you, then you can sue them regardless of whether a copyrightable work was created.

Copyright infringement without breach of contract is more like people stealing the Transmit logo https://panic.com/extras/ripoff/

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#37

Post by deepnet »

6d6b73 wrote: post #27
deepnet wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has the legal right to view something. Copyright only prevents producing and distributing unlicensed copies, i.e. uploading or sharing. Downloading, streaming, or attending an unlicensed performance is not copyright infringement. Without Copyright, and when it expires, the natural state of culture is to be copied, that is how it evolves - all works exist naturally in the public domain. Copyright is a limited…

You only have the right to view something if someone who created that wants you to view it. If they say that you can view it after you pay, that's their right. If you pay and are allowed to view it you can describe it in any way you want to other people, but you are not allowed to spend that time you had for viewing it to make a copy of it and show it to some other people that did not pay the original author. If you…

It is legal to view something, regardless of whether the source is licensed.

Copyright only prevents producing and distributing unlicensed copies, i.e. uploading or sharing - it does not cover viewing or downloading.

You may not agree with the law but nonetheless there is no prohibition against viewing an unauthorised copy.

-- can't reply below ? So replying here.

> as legal as buying a stolen tv.

Buying stolen goods is an offense in law. Buying an unauthorised copy is not.

> How is downloading not creating a copy? There was one file before you downloaded it, now there are two.

Yes, but it is not copyright infringement. Making a local copy for the purposes of viewing a web page, a picture or other digital media is not copyright infringement, this is well established by precedent.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#38

Post by kofejnik »

segmondy wrote: post #12
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #5

There's a huge amount of books/music/movies/games that I have no means of obtaining legally. There's also tons of stuff I don't have convenient way to buy (e.g. no way I'm paying full HBO NOW subscription for watching a single TV show). We are 16 years into 21st century now, it's about time for big-name producers to stop calling people "thieves" and offer them an acceptable service instead.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

watching/reading something without authorization is not theft; redefining the words to suit your cause feels no less wrong than 'pirating'

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#39

Post by Gargoyle »

imgabe wrote: post #20
seren wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about identity theft ?

The victim of identity theft is deprived of their credit rating, reputation, etc. Credit is a resource that gets used up as you use more of it or take out loans and don't pay them back. Making a copy of a digital file has no similar effect on the original owner of the file.

Time and labor are resources that get used up too.

You're paying for the creator's time and labor. Taking the product of that time and labor without compensation is theft.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#40

Post by anc84 »

6d6b73 wrote: post #21
guelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

Apples and oranges, that comparison makes no sense. On the topic of media copying your example would be more like another company re-using the same logo after the creator was paid.

Calling copyright infringement "stealing" is not much different then calling it "theft".

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