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Why do so few humans kill themselves?

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Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#101

Post by Shivetya »

mikeash wrote: post #19

While interesting, this article seems to ignore the possibility that most people simply have a very strong desire to live. It assumes that if someone is suffering, and death would end that suffering, then suicide makes sense, and something weird must be going on to make people keep going. But this really doesn't make sense. The entire concept of suffering exists merely to keep us alive. We experience pain and despair…

I guess the title caught me off guard. Suicide rates are low as compared to what, does any other animal on earth kill itself?

with regards to people I would not place on it on the desire to live, I figure it because there are so many distractions in life

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#102

Post by fragsworth »

panic wrote: post #73
ultramancool wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be literally adding chemicals to change people's brain chemistry to the water. The conspiracy theorists would be pretty justified I'd say. I think this is the sort of thing you should really decide for yourself individually.

We already remove chemicals from the water that change people's brain chemistry (e.g., lead). Adding something entirely helpful doesn't seem that different from removing something entirely harmful.

We don't know that lithium is entirely helpful.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#103

Post by Bartweiss »

Locke wrote: post #33

> One of the most amazing things about suicide is that over the past 80 years or so in the United States, suicide rates have been extremely flat. The fact that suicide rates have not changed in response to changes in medical technology and other ways of life is astounding. This may be true in the US, but in Greenland it seems like suicide rates have changed in response to changing ways of life: http://www.npr.org/sec…

An obvious question is whether suicide rates are unchanged, or simply flat because we have opposed changes obscuring the data.

There's a bit of variance in the US numbers, and I wonder how means reduction, a decline in chronic pain/terminal illness, and various way of life changes compare. I'd be surprised if none of those things were relevant, but less surprised if they didn't add up to a clear trend.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#104

Post by ionised »

hasenj wrote: post #27
jokoon wrote: post #20

Easy answer: because we want to believe life is precious and that you only live once. Mental health is taboo. I'm not trying to say that we should let people die, but the living standard has really skyrocketed, meanwhile we still have behaviors and systems that do damage to mental health, and we still disregard those problems.

I think actually it's because we fear death. Even if you're an atheist and know that when you die nothing will happen besides you disappearing, you still don't want to do it. Even people who commit suicide often would rather if they didn't have to use that option. The worst thing about war in my opinion is not just that people die, but that people live in constant fear of death.

You're presuming to speak for others.

I don't fear death at all.

I fear dying slowly and in pain.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#105

Post by razorunreal »

What if not being depressed is the beneficial adaptation? It would not surprise me if many depressed people have a more accurate view of the world and their place in it. When someone's expectations do not match reality it's not normally considered intelligent, but positivity seems unrealistic, common and beneficial to survival.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#106

Post by delecti »

StavrosK wrote: post #31
hasenj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how much your children need you actually. I've read somewhere that part of the reason women lose ability to bear children past around 40 is so they can take care of their grand children because that is usually more important at that point from an evolutionary point of view. It might have been a mere speculation but it kind of makes sense. Rather than take the time to bare and raise one child, that time is…

I dislike these kinds of explanations because they seem like ex post facto rationalizations. An explanation that could have gone both ways explains nothing: * Women stop having children after 40 because it's more important to raise the children you already have. * Women don't stop having children after 40 because bearing more offspring increases your chances of survival. Your explanation barely makes sense even on it…

Evolution can't force anything, and just because it's possible for a woman to not have any children, 40,000 years ago most women who could did.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#107

Post by toolz »

reitanqild wrote: post #75
johnward wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all those cancer causing chemicals we allow companies to dump into the water or fluoride? I guess the conspiracy theorists are already onto fluoride.

> I guess the conspiracy theorists are already onto fluoride. They are. I hope however that we can agree that they are in fact conspiracy theorists.

Why would you hope that? What do you gain by polarizing an entire group of people based on something as inconsequential as fluoride? Are you unable to brush your own teeth and would suffer great harm if they stopped profiting from companies who pay to dump their fluoride waste into our water supply?

Crazy ideas only get crazier when you don't calmly address them with education and instead find some weird necessity to ostracize those with differing viewpoints.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#108

Post by ethanbond »

bluehazed wrote: post #85
Practicality wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to a desire to live, not everyone views suffering as the worst possible thing. If I had to be in serious pain every day but could keep doing many things I would rather keep living with the pain. The loss in experience is worse than any level of pain. For the obvious counterpoint: I say that from experience not naivete. I've had a nerve in my hand accidentally sliced lengthwise (for a significant length) b…

Chronic pain is an entirely different beast from acute pain.

Totally agreed. I woke up once with severe arthralgia throughout my entire body, went to the ER and was asked to rate my pain level. Despite being the worst pain I've ever felt (woke up in tears due to the weight of the blanket on my toes), I answered a 7/10. Acute pain – not really a big deal.

Unfortunately, whatever caused the arthralgia was (and still is) a complete mystery, and by day 5 of having top pediatricians explaining "nothing is out of the ordinary" I pragmatically, unemotionally contemplated suicide for the first time in my life. Somehow the ailment completely disappeared over the following weeks and hasn't returned, but it's quite something to feel that pain will truly and honestly never stop. It's not even that your brain goes into panic mode. It's a different mode of existence altogether – I can't even imagine people suffering through years of pain even 1/100th of the intensity of what I had.

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#109

Post by goatforce5 »

josemrb wrote: post #88
mikeash wrote: post #19

While interesting, this article seems to ignore the possibility that most people simply have a very strong desire to live. It assumes that if someone is suffering, and death would end that suffering, then suicide makes sense, and something weird must be going on to make people keep going. But this really doesn't make sense. The entire concept of suffering exists merely to keep us alive. We experience pain and despair…

> what's weird is the fact that we do sometimes kill ourselves when things look completely hopeless. The hope is always there, just change the purpose. Instead of a life without suffering one expects to end the pain. That is the final hope that the suicidal people embrace.

For most of us, committing suicide is unimaginable.

Sometimes people find themselves in situations where the unimaginable is a better option than whatever it is they're facing. The act is equally horrific, but preferable to the alternative.

> At least 200 people are believed to have fallen or jumped to their deaths [from the World Trade Centre on 9/11] while other estimates say the number is half of that or fewer.

[...]

> The New York City medical examiner's office said it does not classify the people who fell to their deaths on September 11 as "jumpers": "A 'jumper' is somebody who goes to the office in the morning knowing that they will commit suicide. These people were forced out by the smoke and flames or blown out."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Man

Re: Why do so few humans kill themselves?

#110

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

DNA is a self-optimizing program for its own survival. After millions of years of optimization, ones will to live is quite powerful.

The twist is that the optimization mechanism relies on mistakes in copying itself. One outcome of a copy mistake could be a weakened will to live in certain negative life circumstances.

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