The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline • Hacker News Board

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#261

Post by firloop » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #253

lloeki wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate how Safari hides the full address in the address bar, for instance. You have no idea how much this change makes the URL field palatable for regular Joe. Previously: hhtpttpp://faceblablah.com/techmumbo/jumbo?not=h4ck3r. Now: facebooook.com.ru => "wow this really is not Facebook!". I basically witnessed such behaviour change first hand. > Or, how they removed scrollbars and force people to actually scroll eve…

> Previously: hhtpttpp://faceblablah.com/techmumbo/jumbo?not=h4ck3r. Now: facebooook.com.ru => "wow this really is not Facebook!". I basically witnessed such behaviour change first hand. Anyone who does that is uneducated and ignorant; the proper response to that is to educate, not to remove the ability of those who are educated to do other things.

"The people who are educated" can turn the full URL display back on in Safari's settings.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#262

Post by pseudalopex » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

adamlett wrote: post #57

There is an old macintosh print ad in the article stating something like: "A computer that everyone can use will get used by everyone". It immediately made me think of iOS. No matter how good you think the UI paradigm of the mac was at its peak, it doesn't compete with iOS in user friendliness. We've all heard stories of or witnessed 2-year olds who can navigate an iPad. That was never the case for a mac. I wonder if…

A 2-year-old can navigate an iPad because a touch screen requires less motor control than a mouse. The Norman/Tognazzini article points out the loss of discoverability, feedback, and recovery in iOS.

The most pointed criticisms I've seen of Apple's UI changes have been from people who work in visual media. "Serious content producers" use Finder for the same things as the rest of us. The interface isn't consistently more subtle; where color hasn't been removed, it's brighter and more saturated. iOS has moved in a similar direction aesthetically, so it isn't a matter of different interfaces for different audiences.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#263

Post by tomtheelder » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:16 PM UTC

yoz-y wrote: post #196

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they know less than the people who were using computers back then. The difference is of course that today computers are used by more of the general public for communication, office, and media consumption, rather than (only) bunch of tech savvy specialists. Most of my generation and the generation that followed barely have a concept of a computer beyond "press the thing to make things happen". They know no mor…

> As for running circles around people while using a GUI, while I accept there are specialised fields and exceptions that disprove the rule, outside of marketing presentations I just don't see it happen. As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer... I wonder. Every time I see a colleague usi…

> Every time I see a colleague using command line to do git operations I get itchy and think to myself "oh, come on! I could've done this in gui in seconds".

What operation could you possibly perform significantly faster in a gui than on the command line? I can think of tons that would be far, far slower in a gui.

> to me using a GUI is more of a mark of valuing one's time than that of a novice

I would argue the exact opposite. GUIs are there to make things accessible to non-power users. A command line is just infinitely more expressive and will let you be much more efficient if you learn to use it effectively.

With nearly every program that I use I start by depending heavily on the GUI and then transition to using almost exclusively keyboard shortcuts as I become a power user, as GUIs are fundamentally inefficient.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#264

Post by kps » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:17 PM UTC

xaduha wrote: post #67

Windows Themes were a step in the right direction, why can't we have that in OS X? Give me that Snow Leopard skin for El Capitan or whatever.

Eh, give me Snow Leopard functionality and stability, and I'll live with either skin.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#265

Post by zeveb » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

I think this is just the blah and boring exterior of modern Apple hardware being carried over to the software inside.

I remember the beauty of the original iMac (compare the G3 to the current model at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac), or the beautiful clamshell iBook G3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBook). Likewise, System 9 was beautiful, and the original OS X was even more so: it looked like candy, translucent and shiny.

Now, everyone praises Ives for turning out yet another rectangle with some circles on it. Someone really should buy him a French curve to augment his straightedge and compass …

The new macOS looks much the same: flat, boring, staid, plain.

Now, I personally don't really mind that (my own WM is dark, muted and mostly invisible), but it seems rather a betrayal of what Apple used to stand for: actual beauty rather than simply the lack of ugliness.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#266

Post by johnwheeler » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:19 PM UTC

I like the new look and feel and where the OS has been going in general.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#267

Post by runjake » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:20 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #253

lloeki wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate how Safari hides the full address in the address bar, for instance. You have no idea how much this change makes the URL field palatable for regular Joe. Previously: hhtpttpp://faceblablah.com/techmumbo/jumbo?not=h4ck3r. Now: facebooook.com.ru => "wow this really is not Facebook!". I basically witnessed such behaviour change first hand. > Or, how they removed scrollbars and force people to actually scroll eve…

> Previously: hhtpttpp://faceblablah.com/techmumbo/jumbo?not=h4ck3r. Now: facebooook.com.ru => "wow this really is not Facebook!". I basically witnessed such behaviour change first hand. Anyone who does that is uneducated and ignorant; the proper response to that is to educate, not to remove the ability of those who are educated to do other things.

In Safari Settings: Advanced->Check "Show full website address"

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#268

Post by dpark » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

yoz-y wrote: post #252

dpark wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you have never seen a camera Who are these supposed people who are buying Macs but have never seen a camera? This set of people must be miniscule if not empty. Cameras are still in use, even if most people have replaced them with smartphones. Walk around any city and you'll see gobs of people taking selfies on their phones, but you'll also see a decent number of people carrying dedicated cameras.

Eventually there will be and the icon will have to change then, but I do grant you that now is not the time. Now the question is: should the icons represent something "iconic" or something that most people use?

> should the icons represent something "iconic" or something that most people use?

I don't know what you mean by "iconic". If you mean "abstract and without independently-identifiable meaning", then I think in general, no. Icons should be immediately identifiable when possible. The overlapping rainbow paint chips that make up the current photos icon seems utterly meaningless. The camera was meaningful. A stack of photos would be meaningful. An abstracted "photo" like Windows 10 uses (and like Google uses in the sidebar of their online photos app) would be meaningful.

For the record, I think Android/Google's photos icon is also utterly meaningless to most people. I think it's supposed to represent a camera aperture (same as Apple's icon?), but most people probably don't know what a mechanical aperture is.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#269

Post by dahart » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

All UI has gone less Skeuomorphic and flatter. Google's doing it and giving "material design" talks at all the major conferences. Just look at their design https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_Design Windows embraces flat design way more than Apple does, maybe the author needs to check out an Xbox or use a Surface for a few minutes? Websites everywhere are minimalistic and flat compared to five years ago. This is the current design thinking, the author is stuck in the past. On top of that, this article shows the opposite of what it says it does - it's demonstrating how Apple is doing all these "bad" things less than everyone else.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#270

Post by squozzer » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

To me, flat design just looks cheap. Maybe texture and shading for icons makes as much sense as tail fins on cars, but even the most strident minimalist designer still wants to convey some sense of quality with the details they choose to keep.