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The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

nicholaswindsorhoward.com

191–200 of 440 posts

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#191
post #28

This article doesn't make any sense. The use of metaphors worked when people didn't know what a computer was, and the only way to make its UI make sense was to mimic real-world objects. Now, this is no longer necessary. It's been 40 years. While I agree that new macOS icons aren't great (see the Game Center icon), the old ones were silly. I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book only once when I was lit…

> The use of metaphors worked when people didn't know what a computer was, and the only way to make its UI make sense was to mimic real-world objects. I disagree strongly. If you were new to a machine, is there anything in the new Photos icon that tells you that it anything to do with images, photos or image manipulation? No. The new icon for Pages is fine by the way,

But if you have never seen a camera then you would not know what the old icon means either. Yes there is a picture of a palm tree there but that could be anything (given that all icons are basically pictures of something).

Looking at my desk and my habits there are actually very few objects that I use for work most of it happens on screen. All in all, I think good icon design will become harder.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#192
post #3

It’s not that important a point, but legal pads are a very US phenomena. I’m German and I have never ever seen a yellow pad like that in person. The current notes icon (with white paper) is much more in line with the note pads you would encounter in Germany. Paper people write on to take notes is typically just white. Maybe bound with a spiral on the left or top (and perforated paper to tear off), maybe glued togethe…

This and it's subsequent comments are the weirdest, most unexpected thing in here to me.

I'm an American who's worked in offices the last 10+ years and I have stacks and stacks of yellow legal pads from years of note taking in my closet.

I think it is probably to do with it being cheap recycled discolored paper that was cheaper to dye than bleach. Might be better for the environment than bleach as well.

I switched to dot paper about 4 years ago, though, and I'm relatively happy with the decision.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#193
post #189

There is an old macintosh print ad in the article stating something like: "A computer that everyone can use will get used by everyone". It immediately made me think of iOS. No matter how good you think the UI paradigm of the mac was at its peak, it doesn't compete with iOS in user friendliness. We've all heard stories of or witnessed 2-year olds who can navigate an iPad. That was never the case for a mac. I wonder if…

> There is an old macintosh print ad in the article stating something like: "A computer that everyone can use will get used by everyone". The one that says "A funny thing happens when you design a computer that everyone can use. Everyone uses it"? That's in the article.

Yes. As I wrote.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#195
I agree with literally nothing this dude said. The old mac interface was needlessly complicated and distracting. Simple is better! I don't want to spend time deciphering what some thing is supposed to be. It is a waste of brain cycles. Just give me a memorable glyph that is different enough from the other ones to not be tough to spot, and let me focus on what's important. My work!

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#196
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 40 years ago, the majority of people using computers knew what they were doing. You think that 10 and 20 year olds growing up with computers and even smartphones available for all of their life, know less of computers than people in the past? Even a 7 year old that plays games can almost run circles around a 1980s propellerhead computer programmer in using a GUI. Compared to regular people (e.g. office workers) fro…

I think they know less than the people who were using computers back then. The difference is of course that today computers are used by more of the general public for communication, office, and media consumption, rather than (only) bunch of tech savvy specialists. Most of my generation and the generation that followed barely have a concept of a computer beyond "press the thing to make things happen". They know no mor…

> As for running circles around people while using a GUI, while I accept there are specialised fields and exceptions that disprove the rule, outside of marketing presentations I just don't see it happen. As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer...

I wonder. Every time I see a colleague using command line to do git operations I get itchy and think to myself "oh, come on! I could've done this in gui in seconds". Each interface has its time and place, but to me using a GUI is more of a mark of valuing one's time than that of a novice.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#197
There's some good points in the article, in particular the draining of color from the Finder sidebar and a few other glaring usability issues that haven't been addressed.

But, man, seriously, the original Time Machine UI was garbage. The Yosemite version is so, so, so, so much better. It's not great, but it's a lot better than what it used to be.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#198
post #174
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the current icon looks a lot like a Rhodia notepad with the typical orange cover folded over at the top: https://www.stylo.ca/fr/produits/Rhodia/Basics-(no.18)/430_2... Not sure how well known that brand is outside of Europe.

I would guess that stationery is not extremely globalized as of yet. I’m honestly not sure why, though. It seems easy enough to mass produce and export everywhere. Maybe historic standards (different paper formats, different rulings) have created trade barriers that prevent globalization. My brand new notepad (DIN A5, 5mm grid, spiral bound at the top) for my board game evening today doesn’t say where it was made, ju…

I don't see anything particularly sexist nor insulting about a company having a target demographic. Most companies that sell products do.

That said, I was thinking along similar lines a few weeks ago. I was at a home improvement store browsing the power tools for a jig saw when I came across a hot pink drill kit.

"Hot pink?" I thought to myself. "Did they see that the number of women interested in home improvement is rising and figure that women are simple enough to fall for that? To buy your shitty drill just because it's pink?"

Feeling grumpy, I told my mom about it over lunch the next day. My mom bought an old foreclosed-on house in BFE Appalachia last year, and took it upon herself to renovate it -- it went from complete, unlivable dump to nice, cozy home as she replaced the floors, the ceilings, the roof, the cabinets, all of the bathroom fixtures, all of the doors, etc. My mom is no girly-girl and has never been afraid to get her hands dirty, and she's physically stronger than most men I know (including myself). To my surprise, upon hearing about the pink drill, she declared, "I want one!"

Let me tell you, my mother is far from simple. Beyond being strong, dedicated, and resourceful, she's also very intelligent. I know that she knows that the company doesn't actually care about women doing home improvement and is just trying to make a quick buck by "tapping" a market that's already been tapped by your typical orange or yellow or black unisex drill. But you know what? If you like something, you just like it, even if it happens to be stereotypical for you to like it. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and businesses would not be constantly wielding them in attempts to appeal to their target demographics if they didn't work in the market. There's clearly no ill-intent behind it, just business.

If I were out buying eyeglasses and saw an advert for some new sort of lens or coating to suit people who stare at computer screens all day, and the advert featured a nerd typing furiously on a computer with a fake lightsaber mounted on the wall and a set of D&D books on the shelf, should I be insulted? Or should I be glad that someone is finally making glasses for me? Chances are, I'd be excited. I might even wait around for a bit to see if I can find a new cleric for my party...

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#199
post #192
post #3

It’s not that important a point, but legal pads are a very US phenomena. I’m German and I have never ever seen a yellow pad like that in person. The current notes icon (with white paper) is much more in line with the note pads you would encounter in Germany. Paper people write on to take notes is typically just white. Maybe bound with a spiral on the left or top (and perforated paper to tear off), maybe glued togethe…

This and it's subsequent comments are the weirdest, most unexpected thing in here to me. I'm an American who's worked in offices the last 10+ years and I have stacks and stacks of yellow legal pads from years of note taking in my closet. I think it is probably to do with it being cheap recycled discolored paper that was cheaper to dye than bleach. Might be better for the environment than bleach as well. I switched to…

The yellow pads are available in the UK but I've never seen them in the wild, I use 5mm squared A4 pads as they are the cheapest I've been able to find without buying an insane bulk order.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#200
post #61

Currently, on the same front page on HN there is an article: Humans once opposed coffee and refrigeration: why we often hate new stuff. This applies perfectly to you, dear self-righteous blog author.

By mentioning coffee in the same breath, you're implying that coffee is an objectively good idea (it's not).

Just because an idea catches on doesn't mean it is good. Case in point: every "viral" music video, 80s hair and nu-metal.

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