Amazon Picking Challenge • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#41

Post by HarryHirsch » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:04 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #34

ajkjk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems worth it if you want 25000$ and are willing to do this work for it, no?

If you're capable of creating something that can win first place, and you do the work, then the result is worth far more than $25,000; so if you want $25,000 and are willing to do this work, then appropriate reaction would be to do that outside of the competition and sell it for much, much more than that.

You don't want to sell your IP to one competitor, what you really want to do is freely license it and then go consult for everyone in the market. Michael Hanack got extremely wealthy on that with his phthalocyanine semiconductors.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#42

Post by pythia__ » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:19 PM UTC

rootlocus wrote: post #24

Iv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

> The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery If 95% are crushed by misery, where will the 5% get their money from? I'm guessing money will only be exchanged between the 5%, meaning the economy will be a lot different. Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? That amount of people will surely form…

>Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting?

Security robots!

More seriously, as robots do more and more, people will start to place a premium on having a human do the work where they notice the difference (so, not Amazon warehouses but probably the local Starbucks). With this factored in, 95% unemployment is unlikely until artificial general intelligence.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#43

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:27 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #4

There appears to be a stray object replacement character (U+FFFC) in the title (right after the 'n' in Amazon). Perhaps someone can edit it out?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#44

Post by Iv » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:47 PM UTC

pythia__ wrote: post #42

rootlocus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery If 95% are crushed by misery, where will the 5% get their money from? I'm guessing money will only be exchanged between the 5%, meaning the economy will be a lot different. Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? That amount of people will surely form…

>Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? Security robots! More seriously, as robots do more and more, people will start to place a premium on having a human do the work where they notice the difference (so, not Amazon warehouses but probably the local Starbucks). With this factored in, 95% unemployment is unlikely until artificial general intelligence.

Would you pay a premium for being served by a human? Do you pay a premium to have a driver, to have a maid, to have a chef, when you can do without?

I know I would not. If a machine gives me accurate medical advice, I wont go to the doctor. If a machine makes good burgers, I won't pay a random student to flip burgers for me.

It would actually feel awkward and quite contemptful to ask a human to do the task of a robot.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#45

Post by james32322 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

I've thought that maybe a better idea for amazon woud be containerising their products. Is it easier to delevop a picking robot that can deal with odd shaped objects, or a packing robot that can put an individual object into a cardboard box, with a universal way to grip?

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#46

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#47

Post by Msterup » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

Why are people from Quebec not allowed to enter?

(Challenge is void in Brazil, Quebec, Crimea, Cuba, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, and where prohibited by law.)

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#48

Post by 1_800_UNICORN » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:11 PM UTC

Msterup wrote: post #47

Why are people from Quebec not allowed to enter? (Challenge is void in Brazil, Quebec, Crimea, Cuba, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, and where prohibited by law.)

Legal hurdles. Quebec has some interesting laws about conducting business in/with their province, particularly around doing business in both French and English.

I'm not sure about why Brazil and Crimea are not allowed to participate, but I know Cuba, Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Sudan will all be prevented due to US sanctions against those countries.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#49

Post by pythia__ » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #44

pythia__ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? Security robots! More seriously, as robots do more and more, people will start to place a premium on having a human do the work where they notice the difference (so, not Amazon warehouses but probably the local Starbucks). With this factored in, 95% unemployment is unlikely until artificial general intelligence.

Would you pay a premium for being served by a human? Do you pay a premium to have a driver, to have a maid, to have a chef, when you can do without? I know I would not. If a machine gives me accurate medical advice, I wont go to the doctor. If a machine makes good burgers, I won't pay a random student to flip burgers for me. It would actually feel awkward and quite contemptful to ask a human to do the task of a robot…

I'll answer your specific questions first. Driver, no. Maid, no. (But keep in mind that robot maids/janitors are considerably farther away than self-driving cars. Cleaning environments not specifically designed for it is really complicated and I expect humans to outperform robots at it for longer than at most other kinds of physical labor.) For a fancier meal than burgers, yes, I'd pay a premium to have a human chef cook it. Doctor, definitely not in most cases.

As for it being "awkward and contemptful," I suspect you are imagining humans perform a task exactly as a robot would. That will be the minority of cases, because the economics are strongly against it in most. Instead, you'll pay humans for their ability to customize their work or the products they produce in a way that isn't economical to automate. (Burger flipping is doomed for this reason -- not much to differentiate humans form robots there.) Hence, chefs, plumbers, tailors, auto mechanics, specialist doctors, interior decorators, etc. will be assisted by "weak" AI but won't be replaced by it.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#50

Post by dsl » Tue, Jul 26, 2016, 2:17 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #13

dsl wrote: post #5

Something that seems really odd is they are working off the false assumption that current picking bins are suitable for the job. It seems every team was effectively competing against the bins, not devising an efficient way to put a subset of objects in storage into a container.

How do you know it's a false assumption and not a tested fact?

Because all of the teams are building very contrived contraptions to work around them.