Don't add your 2 cents • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#171

Post by collyw » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #143

haasn wrote: post #142

I can't agree with this article at all. From my experience on contributing to FOSS projects, I feel much better when somebody senior makes adjustments to my code rather than leaving it as-is. Not only does it tell me that they actually read my code and spot errors (the added bug safety net makes it much less stressful for me to write new code), but it also makes me feel like I'm learning something new that I wouldn't…

I think both of you are right, if the Boss/Senior is more qualified in the subject at hand a 2 cent is more than welcome, the problem arise when the Boss/Senior is not more qualified.

I find semi technical managers the worst to deal with - people who managed to get promoted to management early in their career. They think they know how things work, but really they have out of date experience as a junior developer.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#172

Post by andremendes » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:09 PM UTC

This reminds me of that story about the bikeshed[1] colour: "This is a metaphor indicating that you need not argue about every little feature just because you know enough to do so. Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change."

[1]: http://bikeshed.com/

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#173

Post by exodust » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:13 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #168

paulpauper wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree. It's not that good of an article. What if the product really does need improvement. Kinda amazed this even got so many votes.

I imagine most people are able to tell the difference between a necessary improvement or criticism versus something that is really just opinion. Boss sees a typo or brand color is wrong? Yeah, they say something. Boss just thinks their idea is slightly better on a hunch? Don't say something. It's good advice.

At least hear the 2 cents out and have a discussion where common sense and honesty decide the outcome. If the boss has any history of good ideas, then only a fool would not want to hear any hunches from the boss or bosses.

The idea that "ownership" can be lost by 2 cent changes is absurd. What happened to wanting team input anyway? Weird piece.

It's likely that already the project has a combination of elements coming from more than one person anyway.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#174

Post by quadrangle » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:51 PM UTC

Oh how I wish I had a downvote ability on this post. The first thing wrong with this is the fact that the post is nothing more than the author's 2 cents. The author doesn't know what they hey they're talking about and is just pontificating.

As someone who does a lot of creative work, I hate it when people just give useless positive encouragement and withhold actual constructive feedback, small or large. Only hypersensitive people feel worried about their loss of ownership because they accepted someone's suggestion.

A situation where a boss having a color preference means that a designer feels unable to reject the suggestion is a dysfunctional workplace. When the manager has that type of feedback, they are not being a manager. A good manager makes it clear that if they have color feedback, that's just their suggestions and not them acting in capacity as a manager.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#175

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:52 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#176

Post by fixermark » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

Related: Parkinson's Law of Triviality, and the Queen's pet duck in Battle Chess (when developers become aware of management's need to unnecessarily "finishing touch" all work and begin making slightly-inefficient choices intentionally to give the work a "shear point" where the management can feel like they're contributing by removing something obviously incorrect).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

Similar processes have been used for decades by movie and television creatives to move the Overton window on media censorship---early cuts of a project will have something obviously grotesque and culturally repugnant, so the censors lock onto that and miss the risqué thing the creator wanted to get to their audience.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#177

Post by nashashmi » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

haasn wrote: post #142

I can't agree with this article at all. From my experience on contributing to FOSS projects, I feel much better when somebody senior makes adjustments to my code rather than leaving it as-is. Not only does it tell me that they actually read my code and spot errors (the added bug safety net makes it much less stressful for me to write new code), but it also makes me feel like I'm learning something new that I wouldn't…

I can agree that the article did not go into detail on the extent of "two cents", and instead kept it too simple for the inexperienced reader to understand.

But I know very well that when I put an incredible amount of thought and reason into picking every little detail, I DO NOT want some non-technical manager to come to me and say "the shade should be blue". His comments should not be so shallow to tell me he doesn't care, but neither should his comments be that decisive, when I cannot understand.

Your point of view comes from a person who is always looking for guidance, like someone fresh from college. The day you get lift off to the point where you are working for someone who has little expertise in your field or you have developed comprehensive depth where you can work independently, you will want ownership and you will feel annoyed at the "decisive" comments you receive.

To all others who are reading this: instead of being decisive or making shallow comments, learn to explore the work of your people, the great parts, and the weak parts. You will immediately hit upon the areas where the person is seeking guidance, and the areas where the person has resolved his mind with limited information.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#178

Post by bambax » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

Excellent. So simple advice, so obvious, so true.

Works with kids, too.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#179

Post by bambax » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

haasn wrote: post #142

I can't agree with this article at all. From my experience on contributing to FOSS projects, I feel much better when somebody senior makes adjustments to my code rather than leaving it as-is. Not only does it tell me that they actually read my code and spot errors (the added bug safety net makes it much less stressful for me to write new code), but it also makes me feel like I'm learning something new that I wouldn't…

Highly technical advice from a mentor does not qualify as "2 cents".

"2 cents" is an opinion. Opinions are cheap, and as this demonstrates, they are noxious when coming from an authority figure.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#180

Post by meerita » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

The problem is the initial question, not the manager input. There's a significant difference between delivering something with facts than delivering something and asking for approval.