Amazon Picking Challenge • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#31

Post by Iv » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:17 AM UTC

jbi wrote: post #26

Iv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

Right now western societies could easily go on with 30 hour workweeks. It would reduce unemployment and people who are working would have more time for their families or to do voluntary stuff. Another idea is a basic income which allows a simple and good life. White old men in suits are part of the problem why there's no real progress on these ideas and education is part of the solution.

My belief is that right now we give incentive to people to prevent the automation of their work. Were we to do the opposite (e.g. by promising a guaranteed life-time salary to every worker who got fired because of automation) it would not take 10 years to make the world work out of voluntary work alone.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#32

Post by Iv » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:27 AM UTC

rootlocus wrote: post #24

Iv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

> The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery If 95% are crushed by misery, where will the 5% get their money from? I'm guessing money will only be exchanged between the 5%, meaning the economy will be a lot different. Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? That amount of people will surely form…

> If 95% are crushed by misery, where will the 5% get their money from?

I am not sure I see the problem. The 95% need goods and food. They buy it from the 5%. The 5% decide of the amount of money they accept to redistribute to the 95%. That can go on for a while.

> Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting?

Absolutely. But I am arguing that if your path toward a positive income has revolt as a necessary step, it is improvable. And even so, there is a risk:

> What will save the 5%?

What makes you think that soldiers will be sparred from automation?

> There are people who don't want to work because they're lazy or incompetent. There are people who want to work and are very competent, but can't find a suitable job.

It sounds to me that society would then benefit by having the lazy or incompetent people kept out of the work pool and paid to not work instead of having to make themselves absolutely necessary.

If you have worked in any medium or big organization I am sure that you can think of people who would have actually saved their employer's money by receiving a salary and not come to work.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#33

Post by mabbo » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:14 AM UTC

What people don't seem to understand is that picking is hard even for humans. The technology isn't yet close to replacing human labor imho.

The bins used here are the best case scenario- every item visible, every item is actually in the bin it's supposed to be in, the bin only 20℅ full by volume. A human can pick at ten times the speed of these robots given those conditions. Fill the bin to the point that nothing more will fit in, and now try competing with a human.

Amazon Robotics isn't paying the winners $25,000 and actually using what they built next week. They're just trying to put research on the right path.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#34

Post by PeterisP » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:15 AM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #17

biot wrote: post #8

First prize is $25,000 USD. Doesn't seem worth it given that it appears one must upload their code, eg: https://github.com/amazon-picking-challenge In comparison, Netflix gave away $1,000,000 for a better recommendation algorithm.

It seems worth it if you want 25000$ and are willing to do this work for it, no?

If you're capable of creating something that can win first place, and you do the work, then the result is worth far more than $25,000; so if you want $25,000 and are willing to do this work, then appropriate reaction would be to do that outside of the competition and sell it for much, much more than that.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#35

Post by nfriedly » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #4

There appears to be a stray object replacement character (U+FFFC) in the title (right after the 'n' in Amazon). Perhaps someone can edit it out?

I assumed that was intentional - I read it as "Amazon Object Picking Challenge"

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#36

Post by jasode » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:37 AM UTC

biot wrote: post #8

First prize is $25,000 USD. Doesn't seem worth it given that it appears one must upload their code, eg: https://github.com/amazon-picking-challenge In comparison, Netflix gave away $1,000,000 for a better recommendation algorithm.

I think the total potential winnings could be $50,000 because it's $25k top event prize for "each task". The 2 tasks I see are: "stow task" and "pick task".

But to your point, $50k doesn't have quite the same glamour as $1 million.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#37

Post by ghshephard » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:19 PM UTC

mavus wrote: post #22

ajkjk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems worth it if you want 25000$ and are willing to do this work for it, no?

I think what was meant was that a winning solution to Amazon's problem is probably worth a lot more to them than $25000 to them. Eg. cents saved picking item would rack up to millions saved annually. Amazon bought Kiva for $775 million.[1] a top rank robotic picking and packing solution would be worth as much too. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-03-19/amazon-acq...

Amazon won't be using any of this technology. Heck, nobody will be using this technology. This is just an opportunity to encourage people to get together and further research.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#38

Post by 1ris » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:22 PM UTC

They having this contest in germany for a reason - but if they are so cheap with the price money I don't think employees should feel threatened - yet.