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Don't add your 2 cents

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Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#151

Post by thesz »

vanderZwan wrote: post #93
thesz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The open question does not always work. I'd say it never works, even. If I take "coaching" attitude, I will take attitude of sports coach - observe, measure and explain why corrective action is needed. The action itself is a choice, mostly, but manager and coach should present a basis for it. Continuing my my rant, I emphasize that manager and coach are external to the team, they view performance from outside (and of…

I thinks specific questions would work well. To use the bad boss example: > I like it! Really good. Maybe just a darker shade of blue there, and change the word ‘giant’ to ‘huge’. Other than that, it’s great! Let's change this to: > I like it! Really good. Can you briefly work me through the design process behind it? I'm particularly interested in how you settled on the colours over there, and your ideas behind the w…

You are not presenting a quantitative basis for a change. That "work me out of a design" is as diminishing as direct request.

Please, answer to me why are you concerned with such minutiae next to project completion? Is the Statement of Work you have prepared with designer not detailed enough?

The only reason I, as a manager, would like to ask questions about "blue and huge" is to provide a way to me to experiment or allow some other people to experiment and fine tune (think A/B experiments). But that would be in SOW in first place.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#152

Post by thesz »

sumo89 wrote: post #95
thesz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The open question does not always work. I'd say it never works, even. If I take "coaching" attitude, I will take attitude of sports coach - observe, measure and explain why corrective action is needed. The action itself is a choice, mostly, but manager and coach should present a basis for it. Continuing my my rant, I emphasize that manager and coach are external to the team, they view performance from outside (and of…

Saying "this is how to improve" is fine and all, but it's much more effective when the methods to improve are thought of by the person they're for. That's what coaching is, helping people realise the steps they need to take to get to the end goal.

I cannot agree more. This is why I propose measurement and observations with the report of the results to the people who should change. Probably, with a set of options of "how to change", just to spark a thinking or discussion.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#153

Post by bind »

haasn wrote: post #142

I can't agree with this article at all. From my experience on contributing to FOSS projects, I feel much better when somebody senior makes adjustments to my code rather than leaving it as-is. Not only does it tell me that they actually read my code and spot errors (the added bug safety net makes it much less stressful for me to write new code), but it also makes me feel like I'm learning something new that I wouldn't…

I wonder if feeling better with feedback has the side effect of not shipping something world-changing in the long run.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#156

Post by ErrantX »

tobtoh wrote: post #102

As a manager, I tend to frame my feedback/opinions as 'Have you considered ?' or 'Can you explain your thinking behind this ?' Doing it this way, I get an understanding of their rationale and if I still think my idea is good, I can debate the worthiness of it against my employees reasoning. I feel this approach fosters a 'best idea wins' rather than a 'manager opinion trumps all'. I agree with Derek's implied point t…

I agree in part. Except for "have you considered" which always sounds patronising to me. It's very clearly a disguised way of saying "you should have done..."

There's another part too which to me is; if the point that I, as a manager, am making suggestions (even valid ones) is when looking at the complete "diagram" then I've failed as a manager. The point to offer an alternative option is the point at which the team was discussing it in the first place.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#157

Post by sitkack »

moystard wrote: post #147
zouhair wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both of you are right, if the Boss/Senior is more qualified in the subject at hand a 2 cent is more than welcome, the problem arise when the Boss/Senior is not more qualified.

The issue is that many will think themselves qualified. It would be too easy if the Boss/Senior in the case described in the article was aware of their non qualification in the domain. I think the article is simply that if you are pushing for a very small change, one that would make not much difference, and is just a matter of opinion, then don't do it as it will impact negatively the original author.

This was one of the hardest things when I managed people. Most solutions won't be how you would do them, maybe they are 75% 84% of the way there. Constantly judging and tweaking others work when it doesn't make a material difference has a mental and emotional toll on everyone. I learned to go with the flow, if I though that things could be slightly better I would give them a nonbinding code review a couple weeks later. If matters now, we discuss it now, if doesn't we ship.

Bosses shouldn't be bossy except in rare circumstances.

Most of aren't the creative director, so don't enforce your idiosyncratic aesthetic on your team members.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#158

Post by jamesroseman »

reitanqild wrote: post #101
icelancer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For example, you might ask "If you had to improve anything, what would you change?" It's an open-ended question that will encourage your team member to think. Yeah. They think you're too weak-willed to just outright state your opinion and instead passively-aggressively point out what you really mean.

I think some people would enjoy life more if they didn't think passive-agressive all tbe time. Passive-agressiveness exists but reading everything into that context just makes for poor workplace performance IMO.

Passive aggression. I was searching for the noun of passive aggressive recently and someone corrected me, and I'm glad they did! (Hopefully this is helpful not hurtful).

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#159

Post by ErrantX »

ojosilva wrote: post #57

I find the advice highly condescending. > Because of that small change, that person no longer feels full ownership of their project. What kind of person is that who 1) thinks the ownership is 100% theirs when working in a team? 2) can't handle a little nitpicking? 3) feels it's less their work just because of a little change? 4) can't defend their work and resist those 2c? This is advice for managing 2 year olds. As…

As a boss, having observed the impact of motivated and unmotivated employees...

The motivational difference between it being a shade of blue I like vs. just being shipped right now because it's done is a gulf.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#160

Post by reitanqild »

jamesroseman wrote: post #158
reitanqild wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some people would enjoy life more if they didn't think passive-agressive all tbe time. Passive-agressiveness exists but reading everything into that context just makes for poor workplace performance IMO.

Passive aggression. I was searching for the noun of passive aggressive recently and someone corrected me, and I'm glad they did! (Hopefully this is helpful not hurtful).

To late to edit. That said:

Don't worry about me. Only three people I know have managed to seriously annoy me over the last >15 years and they all had to work for it (although it seemed to be quite effortless for at least two of them : )

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