Amazon Picking Challenge • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#21

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 8:52 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #10

brian-armstrong wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic and societal forces that require having a job will not, on their own, magically change over upon the arrival of better robots. Without those changes, all you've done is taken away somebody's source of income.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#22

Post by mavus » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:01 AM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #17

biot wrote: post #8

First prize is $25,000 USD. Doesn't seem worth it given that it appears one must upload their code, eg: https://github.com/amazon-picking-challenge In comparison, Netflix gave away $1,000,000 for a better recommendation algorithm.

It seems worth it if you want 25000$ and are willing to do this work for it, no?

I think what was meant was that a winning solution to Amazon's problem is probably worth a lot more to them than $25000 to them. Eg. cents saved picking item would rack up to millions saved annually. Amazon bought Kiva for $775 million.[1] a top rank robotic picking and packing solution would be worth as much too.

[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-03-19/amazon-acq...

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#23

Post by icebraining » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:08 AM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #19

Iv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

And it's interesting how the social democracies seem to have more of a plan on how to proceed than the purely capitalist nations.

Which purely capitalist nations are you thinking of?

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#24

Post by rootlocus » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:11 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #10

brian-armstrong wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic and societal forces that require having a job will not, on their own, magically change over upon the arrival of better robots. Without those changes, all you've done is taken away somebody's source of income.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

> The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery

If 95% are crushed by misery, where will the 5% get their money from? I'm guessing money will only be exchanged between the 5%, meaning the economy will be a lot different.

Also, what will keep the 95% from revolting? That amount of people will surely form a formidable army. What will save the 5%?

> Seeing how most politicians paint unemployed as subhumans that barely deserve to live, I am not that optimistic :-/

Changing the way we treat unemployed people is surely a necessary step forward, but it's not black and white. There are people who don't want to work because they're lazy or incompetent. There are people who want to work and are very competent, but can't find a suitable job. There are many types of people in between.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#25

Post by gcatalfamo » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:12 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #13

dsl wrote: post #5

Something that seems really odd is they are working off the false assumption that current picking bins are suitable for the job. It seems every team was effectively competing against the bins, not devising an efficient way to put a subset of objects in storage into a container.

How do you know it's a false assumption and not a tested fact?

How do you know if it's a tested fact? And even if it was, why not experimenting without human constraints?

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#26

Post by jbi » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:18 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #10

brian-armstrong wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic and societal forces that require having a job will not, on their own, magically change over upon the arrival of better robots. Without those changes, all you've done is taken away somebody's source of income.

The question is will we iteratively destroy each job until 5% of the current workers still can afford an opulent living while the other 95% are crushed by misery and accusations of inadequacies, or will we, as a society, realize that we can suppress the need for work altogether and try to make the smoothest transition possible? This is not a technical question but a political one. Seeing how most politicians paint un…

Right now western societies could easily go on with 30 hour workweeks. It would reduce unemployment and people who are working would have more time for their families or to do voluntary stuff. Another idea is a basic income which allows a simple and good life. White old men in suits are part of the problem why there's no real progress on these ideas and education is part of the solution.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#27

Post by icebraining » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:25 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #25

icebraining wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it's a false assumption and not a tested fact?

How do you know if it's a tested fact? And even if it was, why not experimenting without human constraints?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking!

And even if it was, why not experimenting without human constraints?

Who says they didn't? Really, all I'm asking is: why is everyone assuming that Amazon/Kiva didn't think about these things? Because unless one has a good reason to think they are taking a wrong approach, it just seems like hubris to flat-out claim so.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#28

Post by visarga » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:41 AM UTC

senthilnayagam wrote: post #14

codecamper wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to write the same thing. He's the last guy at the factory. Surrounded by other robots impatiently waiting on this slow human. I used to think Amazon was great when they sold books. Now I'm not so sure. but I suppose it's too late. Once humans are removed, they can drop prices lower than anyone with humans could possibly provide. yikes.

increase the wages and ROI for robots will look more attractive

On the long term issue of unemployment, instead of talking about how jobs were lost to robots, we should focus on how to make robots work for us, the rest of the population, not just Amazon. People should invest in these technologies so they get to share in the dividends.

Otherwise, there is a second path - vertically integrated communities, with their own farming, schooling, health and manufacturing, so that people have a job and provide for themselves.

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#29

Post by esac » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:44 AM UTC

the prize 25k is not relevant since most of the equipment can be taken from a sponsor and the participants are mostly universities, which means that every single cost is paid either by a sponsor or by amazon, we entered last year and ended up paying a total of 250€ for 5 members

personally i love the fact that this competition exists even if only to push research in the field

Re: Amazon Picking Challenge

#30

Post by eeZah7Ux » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:09 AM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #17

biot wrote: post #8

First prize is $25,000 USD. Doesn't seem worth it given that it appears one must upload their code, eg: https://github.com/amazon-picking-challenge In comparison, Netflix gave away $1,000,000 for a better recommendation algorithm.

It seems worth it if you want 25000$ and are willing to do this work for it, no?

if