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Don't add your 2 cents

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Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#91

Post by BuckRogers »

paulsutter wrote: post #7

This is an excellent mini-rule for habitual micromanagers. Like me :)

Micromanaging without just taking the work off their hands is obnoxious. If I had a micromanaging boss, I'd ask him if that project was one he'd prefer to take on himself.

As long as you don't mind being micromanaged yourself, then I suppose it's ok. I'd quit as soon as I could though in such a case. My manager giving me his 2 cents annoys me, I'm already stressed out and it just adds more on top of it all. Especially if it's not a suggestion that decreases work to be done, which it rarely is.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#92

Post by keithpeter »

ojosilva wrote: post #57

I find the advice highly condescending. > Because of that small change, that person no longer feels full ownership of their project. What kind of person is that who 1) thinks the ownership is 100% theirs when working in a team? 2) can't handle a little nitpicking? 3) feels it's less their work just because of a little change? 4) can't defend their work and resist those 2c? This is advice for managing 2 year olds. As…

In my role as employee: I usually ask peers/possible end users for a bit of feedback. This is especially true when writing any kind of extended text for use with the Great British Public.

In my role as manager/mentor: I would always encourage colleagues to seek feedback from others, and have, in the past, even done training on giving and receiving feedback ('don't argue or defend, just listen record then see if the statements are actually meaningful later on).

Disclaimer: I work as a teacher. It is mostly content/activities/text designed for communication of steps in a process that I have to produce.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#93

Post by vanderZwan »

thesz wrote: post #54
JacobAldridge wrote: post #15

I think it's good to note, as Derek does, the distinction between "2 cents' worth" and larger changes that do require senior input - otherwise you're just being the manager that the team create ducks for [1]. This is where coaching skills as a manager can prove useful. If you feel there are some minor changes that could be an improvement, but don't want to impose your will/opinion, coaching ('ask') can be a better re…

The open question does not always work. I'd say it never works, even. If I take "coaching" attitude, I will take attitude of sports coach - observe, measure and explain why corrective action is needed. The action itself is a choice, mostly, but manager and coach should present a basis for it. Continuing my my rant, I emphasize that manager and coach are external to the team, they view performance from outside (and of…

I thinks specific questions would work well. To use the bad boss example:

> I like it! Really good. Maybe just a darker shade of blue there, and change the word ‘giant’ to ‘huge’. Other than that, it’s great!

Let's change this to:

> I like it! Really good. Can you briefly work me through the design process behind it? I'm particularly interested in how you settled on the colours over there, and your ideas behind the word 'giant'.

(This honestly still needs a bit of work, but is getting there)

In this phrasing we show interest in the designer's work, respect their choices and don't assume our ideas are better than theirs. Instead we assume they know what they are doing and give them the space to convince us and also tell us what parts of the design do and do not matter to them, before engaging in giving proper feedback.

The big issue with the cited bad example is that the boss doesn't say why the design needs a darker shade of blue, or why the word ‘giant’ has to change to ‘huge’. It doesn't give any other feedback than "this is wrong, this is the fix". It's not open for debate.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#94

Post by ojosilva »

Strom wrote: post #69
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is advice for managing 2 year olds. That's exactly the vibe I got from reading this article. I immediately thought of someone trying to manage super-fragile millennials who wilt and pout without constant encouragement and affirmation. If I submit I project for scrutiny, I want constructive criticism and advice. The goal should to make the project as good as it can be, not manage the feelings of emotionally chal…

The article isn't about objective criticism, it's about subjective opinion. Usually by a person with less experience, e.g. when a manager suggests a color change to a designer.

I find objective and subjective sometimes difficult to discern.

To the manager, and specially founders and visionaries, it all may sound objective. Frequently, management literature advocates for an instinctive response as a perfectly justified, even inherently better, contribution.

Steve Jobs and Elon Musk's celebrated style of input comes to mind. Fast, truthful and direct, even if subjective. Sometimes one lacks the time to add insight to support an opinion. "Green instead of blue" may as well be sound feedback only the missing objectivity may be left as an exercise to the designer.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#95

Post by sumo89 »

thesz wrote: post #54
JacobAldridge wrote: post #15

I think it's good to note, as Derek does, the distinction between "2 cents' worth" and larger changes that do require senior input - otherwise you're just being the manager that the team create ducks for [1]. This is where coaching skills as a manager can prove useful. If you feel there are some minor changes that could be an improvement, but don't want to impose your will/opinion, coaching ('ask') can be a better re…

The open question does not always work. I'd say it never works, even. If I take "coaching" attitude, I will take attitude of sports coach - observe, measure and explain why corrective action is needed. The action itself is a choice, mostly, but manager and coach should present a basis for it. Continuing my my rant, I emphasize that manager and coach are external to the team, they view performance from outside (and of…

Saying "this is how to improve" is fine and all, but it's much more effective when the methods to improve are thought of by the person they're for. That's what coaching is, helping people realise the steps they need to take to get to the end goal.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#96

Post by icelancer »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #15

I think it's good to note, as Derek does, the distinction between "2 cents' worth" and larger changes that do require senior input - otherwise you're just being the manager that the team create ducks for [1]. This is where coaching skills as a manager can prove useful. If you feel there are some minor changes that could be an improvement, but don't want to impose your will/opinion, coaching ('ask') can be a better re…

>For example, you might ask "If you had to improve anything, what would you change?" It's an open-ended question that will encourage your team member to think.

Yeah. They think you're too weak-willed to just outright state your opinion and instead passively-aggressively point out what you really mean.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#97

Post by vidarh »

ojosilva wrote: post #57

I find the advice highly condescending. > Because of that small change, that person no longer feels full ownership of their project. What kind of person is that who 1) thinks the ownership is 100% theirs when working in a team? 2) can't handle a little nitpicking? 3) feels it's less their work just because of a little change? 4) can't defend their work and resist those 2c? This is advice for managing 2 year olds. As…

In every team I've observed, there has been a steady stream of comments from staff about how one manager or other keeps asking for changes they see as pointless or negative, often accompanied by further complaints about how the manager in question never thinks their work is good enough.

I've seen this be the primary reason for high performing team members quitting. I think you underestimate substantially how much negative feelings this type of thing can produce.

It's not that you can never make suggestions. It's about making sure that you don't always make suggestions, and to avoid making suggestions unless the change you're asking for is important enough.

It's also not about people not being able to "handle a little nitpicking" but that even though they'll handle it, it often creates resentment and feelings of not being appreciated. And the team members that takes the most pride in their work are often most likely to be annoyed by this, and most likely to have plenty of options to move on.

Constantly giving people feedback that says "your work wasn't good enough for me as is" does not build trust. If you want to demonstrate that you trust their judgement, then do that by letting their judgement stand.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#98

Post by jagermo »

So if I have an honest opinion about something my coworker or employee asks me, I should not tell him, so that I won't hurt his feelings?

Is this kindergarten or grown-up life?

Especially in creative areas it pays to let other people look at your stuff and get feedback. It is simply too easy to just get stuck on a path.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#99

Post by NLips »

baddox wrote: post #82
paulsutter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's really not possible. Whatever you say, it's going to weight down their thinking.

It really is possible. I have received countless suggestions from my employer that we understand to be merely suggestions rather than orders. This seems like one of the most basic communication requirements in a company hierarchy. I'm surprised people seem to think it's impossible to achieve, when I would sooner think that it's impossible for a company to be functional without having achieved it.

This exactly. At my current employer, I feel I can oppose pretty much anything my managers tell me - technical or non-technical. I can say "I disagree because X", and the reply might come back as "OK - that makes sense", "Let's discuss this in more depth because Y", or "I'm going to overrule, you must do Y".

If you have a functional relationship with your managees, they need to know they can disagree with you and that you know you're fallible and just need it pointed out. I always make sure that when I give technical feedback to others (whether higher or lower 'ranked' than me), they can come back and argue any bit they disagree with, and so far almost everyone has at some point.

Re: Don't add your 2 cents

#100

Post by [deleted] »

vidarh wrote: post #97
ojosilva wrote: post #57

I find the advice highly condescending. > Because of that small change, that person no longer feels full ownership of their project. What kind of person is that who 1) thinks the ownership is 100% theirs when working in a team? 2) can't handle a little nitpicking? 3) feels it's less their work just because of a little change? 4) can't defend their work and resist those 2c? This is advice for managing 2 year olds. As…

In every team I've observed, there has been a steady stream of comments from staff about how one manager or other keeps asking for changes they see as pointless or negative, often accompanied by further complaints about how the manager in question never thinks their work is good enough. I've seen this be the primary reason for high performing team members quitting . I think you underestimate substantially how much ne…

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