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The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

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Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#31
post #7

Weed helps you ease the cortosol onslaught of any shitty situation. Stress, depression, homelessness, etc... This reminds me of a study where depressed people were shown to have higher rates of gum disease. And just for fun there was a recent study where pot smoking has been linked to gum disease. Why even go there with your research? Why not choose any other arbitrary thing. Like comfort food, binge watching tv seri…

Please don't post snarky I-know-better-than-the-author comments on Hacker News. We're hoping for substantive, thoughtful conversation here. It's quite the extra degree of rudeness to deliver such a middlebrow dismissal directly to the person who did the work.

If you really wanted to know why the study was done, you had a perfect chance to ask a polite question of its author.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12154645 and marked it off-topic.

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#32
post #4
post #2

I am one of the authors, AMA

Who paid for the research?

We did the research independently (all authors work in the Israeli public health system). The NESARC survey was funded by The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), a part of the NIH.

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'conclusion' hints at or indicates the assumption that cannabis use is the cause for increased suicide incidence. What's the basis for this? Depression being the cause for increased cannabis is intuitively a more likely assumption. With these topics, I think it is very hard to get good data. It might very well be that men do not admit to being depressed before starting to smoke up regularily. Can anyone comment o…

>The 'conclusion' hints at or indicates the assumption that cannabis use is the cause for increased suicide incidence. I read the abstract and conclusions closely and I didn't think they were implying that, although this is the sort of result that is classically misreported along the lines you are articulating. The conclusion is simply that there is an association between cannabis use and suicide ideation (in other w…

Couldn't have said it better. We don't claim there is some mechanism where smoking pot will make you suicidal. But we want to explore the strong association between the two, which has been shown time and again in previous studies. Our findings point to important differences between the sexes, so what I would take from our results is not "cannabis is bad", instead - "cannabis use and suicidality are complex behaviors, and effects of sex differences should be further explored". But that won't make a good headline, I guess :)

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#34
post #2

I am one of the authors, AMA

How does cannabis use compare to alcohol use with respect to suicidal behavior or depression?

Alcohol is strongly associated with suicidality, but again, it's difficult to prove causality (Try randomizing people to "alcohol binging group" or "suicidal ideation group"). The association is more robust than that for cannabis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872355/

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#35
post #23

People are always looking for something to blame other than themselves. I'm sure there's at least one person in history that committed suicide solely due to weed consumption, but I would wager a guess that there haven't been more than 10.

"suicide solely due to weed consumption" is not a useful metric.

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should start up a peer-reviewed journal that doesn't charge anything. I wonder how you'd afford to pay your employees.

They don't pay their employees though -- if you count the people who generate the actual content as employees. Nor do they pay the academics who do the actual peer review . They pay editorial staff and tech dudes. I guess a metric shit-ton.

Retail stores don't pay their employees either, if you count the people who manufacture the actual goods. Nor do they pay the truckers who actually get the goods to the store.

They pay janitorial staff and retail assistants. I guess a metric shit-ton.

Yes, it's an imperfect metaphor, but it's showing that you can still provide value without being the origin of the object.

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#38
So, since the authors are here, I have a couple questions.

How is this correlated with legalization? From an intuitive standpoint, it seems like someone who thinks they have "less to lose" would try illegal drugs which carry risk of incarceration, and that same kind of person might consider suicide.

To me, the fact that the effects happen in reverse order (whether suicidal ideation precedes cannabis use or vice versa) indicates that there could be some kind of common cause for the two effects, and that it just manifests differently for men and women. Unfortunately the full paper is paywalled.

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#39

Becuase it's illegal it causes people to be isolated and hide their behaviour for fear of persecution. This I imagine increases depression and anxiety. I only smoke it to stop me from wanting to kill everybody else :)

Illegality is indeed one of the possible mediators of the association. A recent study has demonstrated decreased suicidality in states where cannabis was legalized

Re: The association between cannabis use and suicidality among men and women

#40
The very interesting thing is the degree of denial - of ANY negative side effect -- of using pot among any user. The vast majority of smokers would laugh it off if they were told "there's a notable correlation between suicide and pot use."

I smoked it for about 3 years as a teen, between 1976 and 1978. In those days about zero 'horticultural engineering' was done to the stuff -- the potency was low.

But the effects were dramatic. And negative.

Now? The stuff out there now simply MUST be highly 'engineered' after 40 years of time from when I used it recreationally. The odor is so overwhelming, so strong. The 'skunk' odor.

Back in my day the stuff consisted of stems, leaves, and a bud here and there. The buds had seeds. The seeds would sometimes explode like popcorn. All the pictures of the stuff I see nowadays -- it looks like all buds, and seedless.

In the 1970s, what made me stop it was this. Recall that if you're riding a bike on the right side of the road, cars pass by. Okay, imagine a huge truck passing you and suddenly it swerves to the right -- the huge truck almost hits you but you escape being hit/run over by steering your bike into a ditch.

You are quite shaken, lots of anxiety.

It's NORMAL to feel anxiety at a time like that.

The "I'm in trouble" indicator is -- feeling anxiety for no such reason. No imminent threat, no "I'm late for my final exam", etc. Just smoking the stuff and then feeling anxiety.

You know you're in trouble with that stuff when you cannot seem to shake off the anxiety.

Contrary to what 99.99% of pot users say, the drug -- like most drugs -- HAS SIDE EFFECTS.

I stopped because I felt anxiety and could not shake it.

Stopping the recreational use solved that problem.

Suicidal tendencies from pot use? I had friends back then going to psyche wards and rehab to try getting off that stuff. In the 1970s. When it was FAR LESS potent than today. I don't know if any of my friends/acquaintances back then ever got low enough to off themselves.

I never argue with anyone these days when they discuss how 'wonderful' pot is. My only wish would be -- remember, it's a drug and drugs have side effects.

You'll know you're in trouble when you have anxiety for no reason -- other than the pot use -- and you cannot shake it.

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