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The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

nytimes.com

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is the US habit of funding schools out of property taxes. Then being actually surprised when schools in rich areas are good and schools in poor areas are terrible. Gosh! How could this have happened? This is not a problem that more tests are going to solve.

It's not that simple. In some areas I have lived the spending per student was higher at the inner city school vs the rich school 2 miles away. Where the money came from didn't matter. What mattered is the parents of the poor school worked 2 jobs and had no time for the kids. The parents of the rich kids had stay at home moms and tutors. Depending on your belief system there would also be very different genetics betwe…

>What mattered is the parents of the poor school worked 2 jobs and had no time for the kids. The parents of the rich kids had stay at home moms and tutors.

Or single-parent vs. two-parent households. Controlling for everything else, that fact seems to be the biggest culprit in the future success of a child. Working two jobs is a symptom of a single-parent household

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#13
post #2

You know, as a parent I'd heard many things about "Common Core" from the media, other parents, and even family members. When my son got to kindergarten I was a bit worried about overbearing tests and the lack of a tried and true teaching method. Well, what we got were concepts. In kindergarten, my son learned things that I recognized as basic number theory...almost as if it came straight out of Andrew's book of the s…

> Likely spending $1.59m per cruise missile is part of it, and the other part what we seem to value in society....locking people up vs. fixing the core issues

Cruise missles have nothing to do with it. We spend more on education per capita than any other developed country besides Switzerland. And our best performing school districts often spend a fraction of what our worst school districts spend per student.

We don't have an educational problem in the US. We have social problems we're trying (and failing) to fix by throwing money at schools. Our urban and poor-rural teachers are trying to teach kids in places where the bottom has fallen out of the social order. Changing how we do testing, etc., is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is the US habit of funding schools out of property taxes. Then being actually surprised when schools in rich areas are good and schools in poor areas are terrible. Gosh! How could this have happened? This is not a problem that more tests are going to solve.

Have you actualy checked the school funding differences in your local city? The city wide funds around here go into one school system. I thought that was common? I've looked through the budget spreadsheets for the Charlotte, NC school system. Schools in areas with more welfare recipents receive an even higher funding level and more teachers. These schools still may still be terrible, but relative funding between scho…

I don't know the specifics of e.g. North Carolina, but note that higher average student funding != higher median student funding.

This is because often low-income schools have very high amounts of students with disabilities. Students with very harsh disabilities can require one-on-one or few-on-one supervision. This means that they can eat up a substantial portion of a school's budget, leaving most students with significantly less, even if the school receives nominally more funding.

Again, not sure if that's the story in NC-- just that the story of funding is a bit more complex than the average amount per student.

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#15
post #2

You know, as a parent I'd heard many things about "Common Core" from the media, other parents, and even family members. When my son got to kindergarten I was a bit worried about overbearing tests and the lack of a tried and true teaching method. Well, what we got were concepts. In kindergarten, my son learned things that I recognized as basic number theory...almost as if it came straight out of Andrew's book of the s…

> Well, what we got were concepts. In kindergarten, my son learned things that I recognized as basic number theory...almost as if it came straight out of Andrew's book of the same title. Nothing advanced, but the concepts were covered quite well. What he missed though was the ability to calculate quickly...this I had to get him to do at home, and it came in time.

Did you look ahead to see if that was covered later? Common Core covers much of the same computational arithmetic stuff that was usually covered before, but often covers it at a later grade.

Descriptions of what is covered at what grade level are here: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#17
No Child Left Behind started when I was in 6th or 7th grade.

On a day where we all had to do one of those standard tests, all of the students would get a small breakfast for free, usually juice and granola bars. That part of the test I liked. Whenever I'd get one of the tests, though, the material that they tested me on was always a couple of years behind where I was currently at, so for me it was mostly a waste of time.

The only classes that were worthwhile in high school where the ones that were taught at a college level. In the US there's one program called "AP" where you take a class, then at the end of the semester you can pay something like $70 to take a comprehensive exam on the material. If you get a high enough score on the exam, most universities will allow you to transfer the AP course in as credit. This program allowed me to rack up some college credits while I was still in high school, and by the time I reached college I was able to jump right into math classes at the second year level (not that big of a jump, but still saved some time).

There are some problems with the AP system, for example after you've taken an exam you aren't allowed to discuss the exam with anyone until a few days have passed (which, if you've ever taken a hard exam, is agony), however I think programs like these are where the real effort ought to be applied.

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#18
> Children starting in the third grade may spend more than 10 hours a year taking state tests — and weeks preparing for them.

I don't really understand the issue there. There's about 900 hours/year of instruction, and 10 hours of that being tests doesn't seem like a large burden.

Secondly, "preparing for the tests" sounds like "learning", what is supposed to be happening.

The article also complains about the inept implementation of online test taking. How hard can that be? It's just a form being filled out. I don't see why the tests can't be administered on paper and have the teachers grade them.

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#19
"Common Core" as a curriculum may or may not be good or bad, I don't know. But so long as schools build their entire year around high-stakes standardized testing, the students in our public schools are suffering. It's bizarre to me that many (most?) states in the US require their teachers to get graduate degrees, yet give them little if any control over the curriculum they use. Are they highly trained professionals or just robots?

Today's standardized tests, given on computers, require typing skills the students aren't taught. The computer systems fail or links are wrong, and schools have so few computers that the testing process can take days, during which time the entire school is disrupted. Spending a day or two a year on a standardized test used for statistical purposes is a reasonable investment of time and money. But spending weeks multiple times a year on tests that determine the fate of teachers and schools is a massive failure.

It was obvious when NCLB was proposed that it was an end-run attempt to gut support for struggling schools. That's played out as was easily predictable, but now we seem to be doubling down. At some point, we have to learn as a society that just because someone puts data into a computer and a number pops out doesn't mean that number _actually_ has meaning.

Re: The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students

#20
Testing may be overrated, needed but over emphasized.

Finland has a project based education system, turns out it is one of the best in the world. The term is Phenomenon Based Learning [1] but really it is just project based learning which matches the real world more. The tests aren't multiple choice in Finland, you have to find the answer.

My favorite classes were project based classes, if they are fun and intriguing, maybe education will sink in more. Learning math through programming a game for instance over just worksheets and tests, show how you can use trig/linear algebra to move things around a screen rather than just getting an answer correct.

Financial and critical thinking courses are also lacking in most education programs.

[1] https://www.noodle.com/articles/phenomenon-based-learning-wh...

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