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Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

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41–50 of 96 posts

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#41
post #21

Why should we hold journalists to a higher standard than science journals? It was only a week and a half ago that JAMA did the same thing: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2533698

How is this the same thing? The JAMA article is a factually correct article clearly presenting a specific viewpoint. There are pieces like that in journals all the time, and there should be. The original post here is talking about the misrepresentation of what is a viewpoint / opinion piece as a scientific study in the mainstream news media. They have nothing to do with each other.

It's a one sided opinion piece that completely fails to be objective about the success of the ACA. Additionally, it wasn't peer reviewed, so it's a stretch to claim that it's factually accurate.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-berezow-hartsfiel...

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#42

I think modern journalism is like application development at a startup, except with even less QA. "Get it out!!! Get it out!!!" And since people will forget about the article in a few days anyway, as long as nobody who knows better and knows how to make the right noise about it and has enough energy, time, and incentive to actually do so reads it and starts the correction ball rolling, it's just, kinda... there. Arch…

It is a race to the bottom as long as we value speed over quality. It is a shame too because I think consumers would really prefer quality over speed for software and news, I know I would. But consumption of these things isn't a rational deliberation by the consumer, but a reflex click or don't click. Hence the proliferation of click bait headlines and bs startup promises.

I think the key is reputation and branding. When all news sources are crappy, I will stick to whatever is free and at the top of my feed. Maybe this is why pay walls are a failing strategy, none of the pay walled papers have a good enough reputation for quality to justify the expense in both money and convenience.

For example Apple used to have such a reputation for quality that the apple tax was something people gladly paid. They still do, but around 2007 this was even more obvious. Remember cut and paste on the iPhone, Apple's reputation for quality was such that millions of customers happily waited for basic functionality. Any other company would have had to rush out cut and paste, but Apple could take their time and get it right.

I don't think there is anything similar in journalism. No one says to themselves "That looks like a good story, but I'll just wait a few days and read about it in the New York Times." We can blame the consumer's impatience, but I think we should blame journalists for not cultivating such a reputation for quality.

It would be really hard and probably lose money for years, but I want to see a paper try that approach. Have an explicit and well know strategy of ,"we aren't going to be first with any stories, but everything you read here is well researched almost certainly true". It would take some time but just imagine what a paper with that kind of reputation could accomplish and the sort of loyalty it could have from customers.

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that actual scientists and economists are just a type of professional writer, as they must "publish or perish". I've even heard that in those publications, there is a push towards constructing narratives and telling stories. Do you know of scientists or economists who aren't paid to write that I can read from?

Good point. I thought about this a bit more and, to be honest, I read very few academics. Not intentionally, but it worked out that way. Strangely, some of the smarter, best informed people I read are just regular people without any journalistic or academic qualifications in the field they write on. On second thought, maybe that's not as strange as it seems.

stop and think for a minute about what you are saying. Did you go to college, and did you learn anything? High school? Those books are all written by academics; very few of the smarter better informed people you're reading could write a single textbook without spending a stupid amout of time studying the field first.

Nothing wrong with you being interested in reading what smart, well-informed people have to say on a variety of topics, and nothing wrong with being interested in everyday practical stuff over the edges of academia... but there is a little something wrong with thinking that your preferences indicate something "interesting" about academic writing; I read a lot of blogs too, but get a grip, man!

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 3 drinks per day puts you from 1.5 to 3 times more likely to develop various cancers, according to: http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/al...

Yes, this is what I'm referring to. This information is completly meaningless to me. How does a 1.5 to 3 times higher cancer risk affect my mortality? A 100 times elevated risk in extreme uncommon diseases is absoluty irrelevant, but a 10 percent increase to get something very common is quite important. Likewise is the age when these disease typically break out. If it's typically not before 85, I wouldn't mind. If it…

[deleted]

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#45
best not to rely on the media to provide us executive summaries of academic papers. just go read the paper itself (DOI is 10.1111/add.13477). it's a very useful read for getting up to speed on where we are in terms of understanding cancer and alcohol.

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#46

I think modern journalism is like application development at a startup, except with even less QA. "Get it out!!! Get it out!!!" And since people will forget about the article in a few days anyway, as long as nobody who knows better and knows how to make the right noise about it and has enough energy, time, and incentive to actually do so reads it and starts the correction ball rolling, it's just, kinda... there. Arch…

It is a race to the bottom as long as we value speed over quality. It is a shame too because I think consumers would really prefer quality over speed for software and news, I know I would. But consumption of these things isn't a rational deliberation by the consumer, but a reflex click or don't click. Hence the proliferation of click bait headlines and bs startup promises. I think the key is reputation and branding.…

Agreed. Savvy consumers prefer quality, but many just prefer entertainment. And entertainment drives clicks/views, bringing more revenue.

Is capitalism supposed to provide some sort of self-correction?

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#47

I think modern journalism is like application development at a startup, except with even less QA. "Get it out!!! Get it out!!!" And since people will forget about the article in a few days anyway, as long as nobody who knows better and knows how to make the right noise about it and has enough energy, time, and incentive to actually do so reads it and starts the correction ball rolling, it's just, kinda... there. Arch…

It is a race to the bottom as long as we value speed over quality. It is a shame too because I think consumers would really prefer quality over speed for software and news, I know I would. But consumption of these things isn't a rational deliberation by the consumer, but a reflex click or don't click. Hence the proliferation of click bait headlines and bs startup promises. I think the key is reputation and branding.…

>It is a race to the bottom as long as we value speed over quality. It is a shame too because I think consumers would really prefer quality over speed for software and news

They do but quality is expensive to produce and consumers can't always recognize it consistently.

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I thought about this a bit more and, to be honest, I read very few academics. Not intentionally, but it worked out that way. Strangely, some of the smarter, best informed people I read are just regular people without any journalistic or academic qualifications in the field they write on. On second thought, maybe that's not as strange as it seems.

stop and think for a minute about what you are saying. Did you go to college, and did you learn anything? High school? Those books are all written by academics; very few of the smarter better informed people you're reading could write a single textbook without spending a stupid amout of time studying the field first. Nothing wrong with you being interested in reading what smart, well-informed people have to say on a…

I wasn't talking about formal academic writing in this post. I was talking about academics.

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But better not to confuse economists and scientists.

Don't economists empirically test mathematical models of the economy? How is this not science?

Economists work with data about people's behaviors. Their results don't remain constant, and vary depending on social or cultural trends. So they do social sciences (which is not actually science). It used to be called "social studies" in your grade school.

Re: Journalists confused an opinion piece for an alcohol-cancer study

#50

Science and economic journalism are both pretty bad. My favorite thing (ok, one of my favorite things) about blogging/internet is that I can read real-time thoughts/opinions from actual scientists and economists now instead of having to rely on professional writers and media.

I've heard that actual scientists and economists are just a type of professional writer, as they must "publish or perish". I've even heard that in those publications, there is a push towards constructing narratives and telling stories. Do you know of scientists or economists who aren't paid to write that I can read from?

Project Syndicate, while filled with opinion pieces, are opinion pieces by people who don't necessarily get paid. They have other agendas. That said, it's a forum for their essays as opposed to a left / right paper. People like Roubini and Stephen Roach, essayist economists, get published there. The comments there are in the same genre of intelligent and interesting as Hacker News.
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