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The future is fewer people writing code?

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Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#141

Non-programmers make this mistake all the time: thinking that the syntax is the hard part of programming. No, the hard part of programming is understanding in very specific and rigid details how to accomplish a task. What the author doesn't realize is the enormous amount of processing power, shared culture and empathy that goes into human interaction. Even mighty Google doesn't have the compute power or the architect…

Seems like a gross overestimation of time needed for said advances and complexity of such systems. There is already a research-grade approach to learn to generate short programming-challenge-like programs from natural language description: http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.07211

>This paper envisions an end-to-end program generation scenario using recurrent neural networks (RNNs): Users can express their intention in natural language; an RNN then automatically generates corresponding code in a characterby-by-character fashion. We demonstrate its feasibility through a case study and empirical analysis. To fully make such technique useful in practice, we also point out several cross-disciplinary challenges, including modeling user intention, providing datasets, improving model architectures, etc. Although much long-term research shall be addressed in this new field, we believe end-to-end program generation would become a reality in future decades, and we are looking forward to its practice.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#142
>But with new programs like Microsoft Word coming into existence, typography (e.g. formatting a document, setting the margins, making sure the lettering is appealing, etc.) became something everyone could do easily without much thinking.

Correction: Most people do it without thinking. This does not mean the majority of the typography on the internet (and eventually printed) is good or well done.

My LaTeX setup produces fairly good typography for math work, without too much thinking on my part, after setting up the packages, fonts, etc and learning LaTeX, which did took some time. (And ironically enough, writing LaTeX feels quite a bit like coding...) But first of all, deciding to use and learn LaTeX (or some other workable solution to produce good typography, it probably isn't the only one but the one I'm familiar with) requires you think about typography and realize that good typography is needed in the first place.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#143

Think of the the other time when people want to be precise: contracts. Contracts are written down in text, so they can be edited, carefully read and referred to later. He might as well also say, that in the future there will be no written contracts, we'll go back to debating and settling our issues verbally in public.

> that in the future there will be no written contracts, we'll go back to debating and settling our issues verbally in public.

This is a great metaphor. Only I would change that he thinks we should "go back" with he thinks we are going to invent a magical technology that lets lawyers from two companies drag and drop a few images together and BOOM there's a legally binding contract.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#144
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is on a whiteboard because it is not useful enough to record in a longer term medium. I'm not saying diagrams are useless, they just make a poor substitute for syntax.

I'm going to disagree on that. Every day I wish I could intermix textual and pictorial representations of logic in the programming I do. In particular, any series of computations that can be represented as a directed graph, e.g. a streaming data workflow, or state machine, is much more easily understood pictorially than textually. The flowchart and decision tree exist for a reason to describe algorithms.

> In particular, any series of computations that can be represented as a directed graph, e.g. a streaming data workflow, or state machine, is much more easily understood pictorially than textually.

As long as it is very simple. Electronics already have a highly developed visual language for describing their functions - but if what was going on inside every chip was illustrated just as what was going on between chips, it would be entirely unintelligible. Instead, any visual representation is at a particular scale, and well known portions are represented as blocks with cryptic textual notes next to each interface (ACK, EN, V0+, CLK, PT2, HVSD, WTFBBQ, etc.), labels to identify company or type, and an expectation that you know what they do or can find out on your own (and not an expectation that you understand how they do it.)

Anything simple enough to be completely expressed in human-comprehensible pictures should be exposed to the user and modifiable (even if not by using pictures, but forms.) I totally agree, if that's what you and this article are trying to say. My experiences in trying to encode actual human workflows in BPMN have taught me that when using pictures it's harder to express things of any sophistication than in words - because of words like "with" and "each" and "all", "if" and "when," and because of ways things change over time, and because of separate but overlapping/interacting flows that languages can express easily but pictures not so much.

In pictures, that involves looking all over your picture for different things, trying to figure out how to draw lines to them; if the condition is once or twice removed from the object of the search, it involves trying to untangle massive knots with your eyes and memory. Theoretically, that is. What it involves in practice is scrawling words all over your picture (just like in a circuit diagram.) Words that express the same types of relationships over time and type as the picture is trying to express projected onto a plane, words that could be easily expanded to include those relationships and eliminate the 18 types of lines, the 25 types of shapes, the 12 types of shape borders, the 16 color schemes and the long list of rules for connecting them that had to be invented to avoid coming up with a textual syntax.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#145

Programming is done in code for the same reason mathematics is done in notation, for specificity. Doing programming in plain English would be just as cumbersome as doing math in plain English. I don't think anyone can quite fully imagine the nightmare of trying to program in a recursively enumerable language[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy

I think this is correct -- but.

In Utupia (aka Nowhere) we will have programs that a human being can know is correct. This might involve mathematical proofs, tests and whatever. But how do we know that those things are correct?

In some cases, it would help if we had an English text explaining what the program should doo + computer verification that the program really does that. The English text is only one part of the picture -- but an important part.

This is what acceptance testing tools like Cucumber and Robot try to do; but they avoid actually parsing English. Computers are getting better at parsing human languages, so I expect improvement in this field.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#146

Programming is done in code for the same reason mathematics is done in notation, for specificity. Doing programming in plain English would be just as cumbersome as doing math in plain English. I don't think anyone can quite fully imagine the nightmare of trying to program in a recursively enumerable language[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy

Isn't doing programming projects much less cumbersome when you hire a professional programmer and express a high-level project spec to him/her? Why cannot a sufficiently advanced machine-learning model behave just like such a professional?

Modern models learn to achieve goals in increasingly sophisticated 3d environments and even learn execute commands in some very limited form of natural language. You could say that the question of achieving more humanlike performance may be "just" a question of engineering and scale.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#147
post #10

"...so why are we having a serious conversation about grooming children to become software developers before they’ve even gone to middle school?" We're not, really, but given the pervasiveness of computing technology we're recognizing that it's important for children to have some formal experience with software design concepts regardless of which career path they choose. I'm a firm believer that at least some coding…

This. Whether or not we need more professional devs is beside the point. At coder dojos, for example, they're not teaching design patterns, they're teaching the basics - assignment, loops, conditionals - the kinds of things that allow you to automate computation in other fields of endeavour

There is also one million other skills that would be beneficial.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#148

I don't know if I agree with the author since they didn't seem to provide any evidence / argument for why the future is codeless. They did warn me though that I wouldn't be able to understand from my vantage point in Silicon Valley though so maybe other people see the argument? But from my perspective code is only growing without showing signs of abating.

First off, I agree. I agree that everyone who continually says "programming" is dying and in 5 - 10 years, "AI" will be writing code (or whatever else they can dream up) have no idea what they are taking about. Programming is definitely going to get easier and I don't doubt that it will become a common skill. I just doubt this idea that professional programming is a dying art or something. It is just silly to say tha…

Programming won't be any easier. It's like claiming that in the future thinking will get easier. I'd claim otherwise: keeping in mind recent trends of "outsourcing" the knowledge many brains just don't have enough building block in working memory to do complicated thinking.

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#149
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't necessarily judge the future of of a technology by its past. Consider transportation. Imagine it's 1936, automobiles have been around for 50 years, but there are still plenty of people getting around by horse. Some people are claiming that in another 50 years, by 1986, horses will be hardly used for transportation compared to cars, other people say that horses have been used for thousands of years, there's…

There are currently no signs that what you think will happen will happen. Soft AI is the only place where anything is moving on that front and the movement is infinitesimally small. Here's an analogy for you: It took more than 1000 years (from Babylon to Archaic Greece) for us to go from writing with only consonants to using vowels for the first time.

There are signs, if you know were to look for them: http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.07211 https://arxiv.org/abs/1410.4615 http://arxiv.org/abs/1605.06640 https://arxiv.org/abs/1410.5401

Re: The future is fewer people writing code?

#150
post #6

“50 years from now, I can’t imagine people programming as we do today. It just can’t be." Dear writer, let me introduce you to FORTRAN, COBOL, LISP, or BASIC. These are alive languages, all 50+ years old. Coding didn't change much. The languages, the methodologies, the ideas change, but the approach is the same, and whoever thinks this will soon (50 years is not _that_ far) changes, have never had to debug something…

There's a serious gap in the writer's mind about computation and programming. It's like the author is suggesting that "eventually we won't need writing: it will be replace by writing-thinking or picture-writing". It's completely absurd. Specific, complex ideas can only be described and communicated in text. Not pictures. Blueprints, for example, have a pictorial element to them, but their fundamental value is our abi…

I don't think we can distinguish text and pictures so easily. Look at Chinese, look at Egytian hieroglyphs. Even when "hierglyphics" is used as as a term of abuse of for programming languages synatax -- it ends up pretty popular.

I thoroughly hated LabView when I had to program in it, but it did convince me that a graphical programming language could work -- if only it refrained from doing the cking stupid things that LabView did (such as the strongly typed editor* that would automatically progate the any type error it found, but not your fixes).

In my current C++ work, I would dealy love a graphical tool that showed me where any given value came from, much like LabView does by its very nature.

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