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Create React Apps with No Configuration

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Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#81

Post by spicyj »

Touche wrote: post #72
orf wrote: post #25

> Having just attended EmberCamp a week ago, I was excited about Ember CLI. Ember users have a great “getting started” experience thanks to a curated set of tools united under a single command-line interface. This is one of the best things about Ember. `ember new`, `ember serve`, ember generate component my-component`, `ember build`, `ember deploy`, `ember install`. It's opinionated but it lets you get productive rig…

The problem is that when frameworks develop these CLIs they tend to think only about the CLI users and it becomes larger and larger a requirement. Personally I'm a web developer, I don't want to be a React developer or an Ember developer, etc. so the more difficult you make it to use your stuff with normal web technologies the less I want to have anything to do with it.

One of React's big selling points is easy integration into existing apps so we don't plan to neglect non-CLI users.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#82

Post by abritinthebay »

vlunkr wrote: post #8

My team has wasted so much time configuring webpack. This is a big win for React IMO.

This right here is why I actively suggest not using webpack. It's Grunt 2.0 all over again and not worth the mess.

IMO it's the worst choice Facebook could have made for this toolkit, as it breeds some awful habits.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#83

Post by continuational »

ctvo wrote: post #57
orf wrote: post #25

> Having just attended EmberCamp a week ago, I was excited about Ember CLI. Ember users have a great “getting started” experience thanks to a curated set of tools united under a single command-line interface. This is one of the best things about Ember. `ember new`, `ember serve`, ember generate component my-component`, `ember build`, `ember deploy`, `ember install`. It's opinionated but it lets you get productive rig…

Kind of interesting to think about the two projects and how they diverge based on the core developers. Ember is made by folks who work on / for small and medium companies[1]. They don't have the build infrastructure Facebook does and are able to create an anointed solution in Ember-CLI because they'll use it daily. React is stuck in a place where the environment it's developed in is unique from what any other user wi…

I like React the way it is. It does one thing and does it well.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#84

Post by orf »

ctvo wrote: post #57
orf wrote: post #25

> Having just attended EmberCamp a week ago, I was excited about Ember CLI. Ember users have a great “getting started” experience thanks to a curated set of tools united under a single command-line interface. This is one of the best things about Ember. `ember new`, `ember serve`, ember generate component my-component`, `ember build`, `ember deploy`, `ember install`. It's opinionated but it lets you get productive rig…

Kind of interesting to think about the two projects and how they diverge based on the core developers. Ember is made by folks who work on / for small and medium companies[1]. They don't have the build infrastructure Facebook does and are able to create an anointed solution in Ember-CLI because they'll use it daily. React is stuck in a place where the environment it's developed in is unique from what any other user wi…

> In my opinion most of the Great Javascript Fatigue of 2015-16 was caused by users trying to fill in the blanks left by the React team and producing one solution after another (and quickly abandoning ship as something iteratively better was released).

I agree wholeheartedly with this. And it's also why I love Ember, you get templates, routing, data access all working together with minimal configuration. I love Django and part of the reason why is that it's opinionated, and Ember is the same.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#85

Post by abritinthebay »

Splendor wrote: post #65
lucaspottersky wrote: post #54

Expectation: - "Hey, look, this can SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS" Reality: - "Hey, look, this actually BRINGS IN A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER PROBLEMS too!" :sad:

Would you mind explaining which new problems this creates?

WebPack for one. Using webpack brings in way more problems than it solves.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#86

Post by Touche »

orf wrote: post #77
Touche wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that when frameworks develop these CLIs they tend to think only about the CLI users and it becomes larger and larger a requirement. Personally I'm a web developer, I don't want to be a React developer or an Ember developer, etc. so the more difficult you make it to use your stuff with normal web technologies the less I want to have anything to do with it.

> The problem is that when frameworks develop these CLIs they tend to think only about the CLI users and it becomes larger and larger a requirement Well there are two ways to modify an Ember project: create a bunch of files in various places by hand, or run `ember whatever` and have it done for you. The CLI is the preferred way of doing it for a lot of (good) reasons but if you want a new component running `ember g m…

> I don't understand your point? What's a 'normal web technology'?

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#87

Post by mambodog »

msoad wrote: post #3

This is lacking tons of features that other boilerplates already have but I think this was a great move because we needed a source of truth for doing app structure in React. In a different note, I think if you write it yourself from scratch you'll have more control and knowledge down the road when it comes to nasty bugs but I won't blame you for choosing this over spending weeks setting up a React app.

Most features in boilerplates are completely unnecessary for most beginner users of React.

Off the top of my mind:

- Server or Universal rendering - Hot Module Reloading (refreshing is fine!) - (early stage) proposed JS syntax

The main thing that is missing from this package is testing, but that's a very opinionated kettle of fish.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#88

Post by amavisca »

seangrogg wrote: post #63
griffinmichl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all I ever want in a React boilerplate, but everyone feels the need to throw a bunch of random shit into them that others probably do not even want. Glad they kept it sane and simple.

In all fairness, I think that flags that provide some basic bootstrapping for Redux and/or React-Router would be very spiffy - those tools are useful for many React applications.

I think Redux and React-Router are very opinionated and distract people new to React from React itself.

My workflow for ramping someone up on React and eventually Redux looked like:

- A single React component with React.createClass

- ES6 class React components

- Add a component hierarchy and treat the top level component's state as the entire app state - pass down callbacks to update state. Look how this becomes harder to scale as we get more depth in our component hierarchy!

- Redux without the redux-react bindings. Also stateless function components.

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#89

Post by seangrogg »

danabramov wrote: post #68
sotojuan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just talking about this with coworkers... I love React but the community (aside from the actual creators and leaders like Dan) is too much for me and seem to love bloat and unnecessary features. The cynical side of me thinks a lot just do it for GitHub stars and blog views, but maybe not. Of course, we just spent two days trying to decipher a React/Redux project whose lead dev decided to use every "latest" feat…

We think ES6 is not the problem here. It’s just a language, and arguably a better one than ES5. The problem is the low level tooling around it. This is what we’re trying to fix with this project. Hopefully you’ll give it a go, and maybe it will give you just as much enjoyment as using tags. If not, please let us know how we can improve. It’s not linting/transpilation/bundling that’s bad, it’s that it’s hard to do the…

Oh no, I love (most of) ES6 and enjoy it when something shows green on caniuse. But I dropped Babel/Webpack from my build and (personally) determined that not needing to deal with configuration, deprecation, etc. messages in my terminal was worth the +0.005s to initial render and using tags in my index.html file.

That being said, I'll likely give this a spin tonight for somerandomcrappyidea.js and provide you guys some feedback. Unfortunately, my work at Google has me more focused on Angular so I don't have as much time as I'd like to work on React applications. =As an aside, thanks for the work you've done on Redux and the talk that you gave at Hack Reactor!

Re: Create React Apps with No Configuration

#90

Post by seangrogg »

amavisca wrote: post #88
seangrogg wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, I think that flags that provide some basic bootstrapping for Redux and/or React-Router would be very spiffy - those tools are useful for many React applications.

I think Redux and React-Router are very opinionated and distract people new to React from React itself. My workflow for ramping someone up on React and eventually Redux looked like: - A single React component with React.createClass - ES6 class React components - Add a component hierarchy and treat the top level component's state as the entire app state - pass down callbacks to update state. Look how this becomes hard…

I agree. That's why I would put them behind flags. Even though most of my own projects wind up using them, I tend to start from a clean slate and apply things only as they become relevant.
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