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Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

arstechnica.com

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Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#341

Post by ank_the_elder »

youngButEager wrote: post #190
ank_the_elder wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How much did Return of the Jedi cost to make?" "$32.5 million" "And how much was the revenue?" "$475 million" "So you had a $442.5 million profit!" "No, no. We had no profit - we use Hollywood accounting" Repeat for Forrest Gump, Spider-Man, etc. Real sad, these modern morals. Real sad. If you don't respect others, they ain't gonna respect you.

You can try but you'll never be able to rationalize stealing from someone. Especially when you use someone(s) else's actions to try to justify stealing from them. You folks are young. If you're lucky enough to learn some of these things, the fact that a lot of bad karma will suddenly disappear from your life and things will go shockingly smoothly -- will only be the dessert. The real banquet will be knowing that you…

The level of condescension required to write something like that is truly astounding. Not only are you assuming everyone who disagrees with you is wrong - but you are assuming that the error stems from youth, and in particular from "bad decisions" as judged solely by you!

How arrogant do you have to be to observe humanity and decide that "bad decision making" is not only all around you but you are also somehow immune to it - and a distinguished observer and commentator, to boot!

If this is not a textbook definition of bigotry[0], I do not know what it is.

[0]: "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself"

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#342

Post by jamaicahest »

CaptSpify wrote: post #3

As an American, I wish we would stop doing this. It isn't effective, and it's a waste of time/resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I'd even argue that its counter-effective to progress. Instead of punishing people for making more efficient systems, we should reward them, and try to integrate.

Are you actually suggesting US companies compete on a free and open market, with consumers deciding which services and products deserve to survive based on the quality and price of the service/product? Then they might risk failing as a company just because consumers didn't like what they had to sell. Well I never! /sarcasm

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#344

Post by HoopleHead »

CaptSpify wrote: post #3

As an American, I wish we would stop doing this. It isn't effective, and it's a waste of time/resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I'd even argue that its counter-effective to progress. Instead of punishing people for making more efficient systems, we should reward them, and try to integrate.

>>>As an American, I wish we would stop doing this...

You can't really blame America. They've decided their jurisdiction extends to the entire planet. And, rather, than argue the point, the rest of the world just bends over and adopts the position. When faced with such supine sycophancy, why would America not keep acting this way?

I have utter contempt for Poland on this [and similar] case/s. What a contemptible lick-spittle, a once fiercely independent nation has become!

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#345

Post by CaptSpify »

HoopleHead wrote: post #344
CaptSpify wrote: post #3

As an American, I wish we would stop doing this. It isn't effective, and it's a waste of time/resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I'd even argue that its counter-effective to progress. Instead of punishing people for making more efficient systems, we should reward them, and try to integrate.

>>>As an American, I wish we would stop doing this... You can't really blame America. They've decided their jurisdiction extends to the entire planet. And, rather, than argue the point, the rest of the world just bends over and adopts the position. When faced with such supine sycophancy, why would America not keep acting this way? I have utter contempt for Poland on this [and similar] case/s. What a contemptible lick…

That sounds a lot like victim blaming. "They never said no, so what we did was totally fine!" Yes, other countries should say no to us more, but that doesn't absolve us for being a jerk.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#346

Post by jjnoakes »

milesokeefe wrote: post #331
jjnoakes wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing happens where I work (a restaurant). One of my professional acquaintances assumes that if meal preparation involves a knife, it is connected to a murder. He writes down the wielder, date, and time, and sends the information to the police each day.

Was it a very niche brand of knife that is the nearly exclusive choice of criminals?

Yes, it was.

And don't confuse "nearly exclusive choice of criminals" with "only criminals choose it".

After all, cars are the nearly exclusive choice of bank robbers for getaways. But I don't think you are suggesting that every person driving in a car away from a bank should be documented and reported to the authorities.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#347

Post by milesokeefe »

jjnoakes wrote: post #346
milesokeefe wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it a very niche brand of knife that is the nearly exclusive choice of criminals?

Yes, it was. And don't confuse "nearly exclusive choice of criminals" with "only criminals choose it". After all, cars are the nearly exclusive choice of bank robbers for getaways. But I don't think you are suggesting that every person driving in a car away from a bank should be documented and reported to the authorities.

No I'm not meaning to imply that anyone should assume someone using BTC is a criminal. However it's not irrational to pay closer attention to them.

I do think reporting every single BTC user to a three letter agency is pushing it though. I would understand doing that for accounts that raise red flags beyond simply using BTC, but doing that for every single one seems a bit paranoid and ineffective anyways.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#348

Post by eggy »

Brybry wrote: post #285
eggy wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a power analysis is incorrect here. Zara can and most likely will be held accountable for any illegal acts their lawyers committed by trying to intimidate the indie artist. I am holding up the simple concept of property rights whether you are a big, and not necessarily bad, company, or you are a struggling moral artist. If you download torrents for any reason, it is still against the IP laws that protect them…

Morally distinguishing between the two is easy. Zara had the ability to pay the indie designer for their work and didn't. It'd be like if Bill Gates made a subscription payment torrenting site specifically for indie games. If it had instead been a housewife in the Philippines who used the design to make clothes for her kids (or even a little money on the side) then very few people would care.

Again, I see a lot of incorrect or illogical arguments here. You are arguing magnitudes here, not morality or ethics, so not so easy as you say.

If you agree and respect IP laws, stealing by a big company or by a poor person is indistinguishable morally. They are both wrong. You may emote or perceive them emotionally different, but that is a different argument. You can't selectively apply it to different entities. Abandoning a child at a roadside to die who was under 5 years old was not illegal in ancient Rome at one time. Morality or legality? All or none?

My cloudiness eluded above is one of thinking that a newer business model will evolve eventually on IP, but we cannot try to force or accelerate it by committing illegal acts if we agree and live under those laws. The alternative is anarchy and no government, which is a choice to some people.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#349

Post by youngButEager »

ank_the_elder wrote: post #341
youngButEager wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try but you'll never be able to rationalize stealing from someone. Especially when you use someone(s) else's actions to try to justify stealing from them. You folks are young. If you're lucky enough to learn some of these things, the fact that a lot of bad karma will suddenly disappear from your life and things will go shockingly smoothly -- will only be the dessert. The real banquet will be knowing that you…

The level of condescension required to write something like that is truly astounding. Not only are you assuming everyone who disagrees with you is wrong - but you are assuming that the error stems from youth, and in particular from "bad decisions" as judged solely by you! How arrogant do you have to be to observe humanity and decide that "bad decision making" is not only all around you but you are also somehow immune…

Actually, no, you're 100% wrong -- dangerously wrong.

Failure to follow the law has consequences. My point is that, simply. "Getting a benefit that is legally required to be paid for AND NOT PAYING" is stealing.

Staying out of trouble is a SURVIVAL STRATEGY.

A lot of people out there have very poor survival inclinations. Making bad decisions can really hurt you.

While stealing from the author of copyrighted works may not land you in prison -- by so passionately arguing in favor of stealing from the authors means you only respect the law when it suits you.

In my experience (running engineering teams, startups, rental properties, military experience) -- a sign from anyone that they play 'loosey-goosey' with the rules/law etc. is a WARNING. I've noticed, as have most parents, managers, etc. that when a person violates the law in one area -- "makes a bad decision" -- they for whatever reason cannot seem to restrict that poor decision making to only 1 area of their behavior.

I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not sure why, for example, when a person rationalizes stealing copyrighted material -- "gets the benefit of another person's effort that they were required to pay for and DID NOT PAY" -- I'm not sure why they seem to 'rationalize' a lot of other bad decisions. Maybe there's research in psychology that studies this, not sure. Would not be surprised. Maybe in criminal justice psychology.

But ask any parent with a troubled kid; or a cop who has 'regulars'; or a judge who has 'regulars'; or a long-time tech manager; or any other person who over time was exposed to a broad spectrum of people and behavior.

If you folks are rationalizing away stealing an artist's works, you would lie about doing that in a job interview.

Why? Because it's wrong to get the benefit of copyrighted material without paying.

Richard Stallman rebelled against 'closed IP' and look at the positive results.

So go out there and channel that rebellion. DON'T STEAL THOUGH.

If I'm interviewing you and I ask you "ever seeded a torrent cloud?" and you say 'No' and that is a lie -- YOU JUST LIED TO A TOTAL STRANGER. One 'bad decision' -- stealing copyrighted works -- led to another -- lying in a professional setting.

Where does that bad decision-making stop? HARD TO KNOW.

But having suffered the consequences of 'letting it slide', and since 1993 some of those consequences were quite painful -- if I catch someone exposing me to possible risk by their conscious volition -- I KNOW I'VE BEEN WARNED.

Once you get older, you'll either (1) take a Richard Stallman approach, or (2) realize the benefit of stealing from people is outweighed by the negative effects (lying to a hiring manager for example).

If you solemnly believe "there are no consequences to stealing from people" I'm here to tell you, you are dead wrong.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#350

Post by blastrat »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #330
blastrat wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for that, interesting article! but your quotes are a little selective and tell only one side of the story of that more nuanced article, I think leaving a deep misimpression for readers here on HN. another quote from the article says "a Home Office-commissioned independent review...found the US had not refused any extradition requests since the treaty came into force. A total of seven US requests were refused b…

>"if the US complied in the other direction as the UK does, the UK courts would grant more of the extradition requests." // You seem to have put a lot of weight on the numbers here. Do you know the total number of requests on both sides? Without that we can't really ascribe meaning to the refusal of 7 requests by the UK. Even then we don't know if, for example, the UK seek tacit agreement before entering a request, w…

for various historical reasons, the US economy is among the largest, "most advanced" (not referring to products, but to services, financial markets, meta-stuff), and "most global" economies in the world. The US is among the most important trading partners for most other countries, most countries that export wish to export here.

In order to trade, you need to sign treaties, and that's not even including bi-directional extradition treaties that most countries are also willing to sign.

So yes, a young website operator in the UK got caught up in the web (spiderweb, not world-wide-web) of treaties that are meant to allow for largescale trade of goods including intellectual property consisting of popular entertainments that are owned by giant bloodsucking megacompanies.

Definitely sucks to be him; but Aaron Swartz, Kim dotcom, Napster... these all came before, and I doubt the kid "didn't know what he was doing". Kids lack the capacity to make good judgments about what they are doing even with knowledge, and many people benefit in small ways that seem harmless from downloading content so they sympathize with him, but you are leaving out the part where most teenagers don't manage to get caught up in these legal entanglements from activities conducted on such a large scale. Maybe there is something exceptional about his overachieving on the scale of "these stupid rules don't apply to me, I'm the gingerbread man"

I just read the story in the news this week about the Taliban taking advantage to the "tradition" of "boy play" in Afghanistan (essentially cops molesting children) to train boys to assassinate cops. Thinking about how much of the world lives in those types of culture, I just don't feel the need to shed a tear or rail against the extradition of criminals between civilized countries.

I call him a criminal because he is a criminal; at the same time and same probably as you, I also would like to see legalization or decriminalization or deregulating of many of the things the bloodsuckers make money from, but I don't find myself going to jail while I wait, nor do most people. I also don't litter even though it would sometimes be convenient for me to do so.

People who flout rules are not generally altruists, and I don't think he is an altruist.

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