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Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

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Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#111

Post by bipson »

kognate wrote: post #3

I would ask them what, specifically, within the organization itself failed w/r/t the manager being replaced and what has the organization changed to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. For example, did they not evaluate the manager before putting them into a position where they failed? How do they know it was a communication problem? Remember, this question is not asking the details of what happened…

I would say that "changing and building a team" is not as easy as a lot of people think. I saw a company replace their employees multiple times, yet their culture could never be changed, thus every team constellation was set to fail like a cruise missile.

Once a organisational culture is set, it is very difficult to change [1], especially if you can't replace the head of the beast.

[1] Team Geek - A Software Developer's Guide to Working Well with Others, Brian W. Fitzpatrick, Ben Collins-Sussman

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#112

Post by bipson »

Some people mentioned it already indirectly, but I thought it is worth stating it clearly:

Don't look for "health" indications, try to establish if the leaders established a culture you can live with (and how this current situation might be a result of that culture). I can't think of specific questions, but for me it is about how people interact, especially across the hierarchy:

- How are disputes solved?

- Are people allowed to disagree (especially with higher ups)?

- Are people allowed to make mistakes? Were people fired because of mistakes? Is there a (perceived) "goofy" on the team (can't do anything right according to the team, yet did never really fuck up, thus is still there, but always blamed)

- Is the team allowed to relax and pick up debris, hang loose, enjoy some time together, or is it in constant "sprint mode"?

- Are the managers able to get the team to rally behind the same goals?

- Does everyone solve his own problems, or are people actually collaborating on e.g. features/bugs/ideas?

- Are there leads or managers on the team known to cause issues, yet not removed?

- Is there special treatment for random people?

- Is stuff openly discussed or everything on a need-to-know-basis?

- Does everyone in the company have (at leas read) access to all the code?

This is stuff you most certainly cannot change once it was established, especially if people stick around and even more so if the founders, managers, leads will still be there. If it does not fit your attitude, you will be in constant battle against what happens in the company and why.

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#115

Post by collyw »

grandalf wrote: post #74

They are conspiring to replace an existing employee. That says enough. If the organization were "healthy" they would be upfront with the existing manager and allow him/her to gracefully exit. That they won't do this suggests that there is a lot of mistrust going on, or possibly optics with the investors around turnover -- not sure which is worse. By taking the role, you will be viewed as having taken sides with the p…

How would you deal with someone who wasn't performing well, but not badly enough to sack? (Like a previous manager of mine).

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#116

Post by mud_dauber »

bipson wrote: post #112

Some people mentioned it already indirectly, but I thought it is worth stating it clearly: Don't look for "health" indications, try to establish if the leaders established a culture you can live with (and how this current situation might be a result of that culture). I can't think of specific questions, but for me it is about how people interact, especially across the hierarchy: - How are disputes solved? - Are peopl…

Great list. Thank you!

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#117

Post by djkrudy »

grandalf wrote: post #74

They are conspiring to replace an existing employee. That says enough. If the organization were "healthy" they would be upfront with the existing manager and allow him/her to gracefully exit. That they won't do this suggests that there is a lot of mistrust going on, or possibly optics with the investors around turnover -- not sure which is worse. By taking the role, you will be viewed as having taken sides with the p…

Grandalf are you suggesting in your first point that the company allow the previous employee to leave, then put that facet of their business on hold for 1-12 months while they find a replacement?

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#118

Post by HelloNurse »

TurboHaskal wrote: post #110

Monitors. Are developers being issued several ones, and of above average quality? Do people need to stack object oriented design books to place their monitors at a comfortable level? Are they using old, low resolution, low refresh rate, 15" TFT monitors? Is there disparity between monitor quality among employees?

Due to underpowered graphics adapters, many laptops allow only one external screen, even if they have two or three video connectors. Multiple monitors are typically an option only with fixed computers, which might or might not be a good sign.

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#119

Post by HelloNurse »

mud_dauber wrote: post #70
codingdave wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we are talking about interviewing for a leadership position. Judging the health of a place by how its current tech looks might be valid if you are just going to be a coder, but as a leader, you will be expected to identify and fix problems. So it is OK if there are problems. It is much more important to figure out how people communicate, how they are treated, how the other leaders think, what they want their cult…

My sense of the problem is that it's not so much a tech stack issue and more of an operational, "keeping the train on the tracks" challenge.

Personal problems, communication failures, and organizational issues are often reflected in code and technical choices. For example:

- Something gets rewritten because requirements were lost or misunderstood.

- The same error is repeated after being corrected.

- A component is revised or eliminated, after having been developed too early based on guesswork and speculation.

- Developer A commonly reverts developer B's code changes without explaining the reasons (or with insults).

- There has been a messy, error-ridden merge between the clearly independent developments of two sub-teams.

- In source code control, commits are allowed to lack a good description; only a few true believers "waste time" with messages nobody reads.

- Unit tests for something that is approaching release were last modified, and left about 15% complete, six months ago.

- After employee X left the company (or when the project devolved into crunch mode, or some other excuse) automation of builds, tests, releases etc. started to rot.

Re: Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

#120

Post by grandalf »

djkrudy wrote: post #117
grandalf wrote: post #74

They are conspiring to replace an existing employee. That says enough. If the organization were "healthy" they would be upfront with the existing manager and allow him/her to gracefully exit. That they won't do this suggests that there is a lot of mistrust going on, or possibly optics with the investors around turnover -- not sure which is worse. By taking the role, you will be viewed as having taken sides with the p…

Grandalf are you suggesting in your first point that the company allow the previous employee to leave, then put that facet of their business on hold for 1-12 months while they find a replacement?

> allow the previous employee to leave

Ideally the previous employee would feel an obligation (or incentive) to finish as strong as possible, and to help with the recruiting effort for the new hire (and to maximize knowledge transfer).

Mature people understand that sometimes work styles can differ and talented people are not always a good culture fit. So unless the outbound manager is truly immature or unfit to be in the position at all, much is to be gained by being respectful and transparent.

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