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Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#91

Post by rahimnathwani »

univerio wrote: post #54
johansch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was some noise about the GFW doing clever stuff(tm) to identify VPN traffic and punish the local IP for that. Was that real or hype?

That's definitely real. Normal, unobfuscated VPN will result in packet drops after a couple of minutes. Even obfuscated VPN will trigger packet drops if you send too much traffic.

It depends on the protocol. Unobfuscated OpenVPN definitely behaves in the way you describe. But I very rarely have problems with PPTP, which is unobfuscated.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#92

Post by matttheatheist »

bogomipz wrote: post #57
msvan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had beers with the P1 team in Beijing about 3-4 years ago, so I probably met you too :) Seemed like a cool little company at the time. I'm surprised that you were able to get a Z visa (?) as I thought that required a degree? OP: I can recommend living in China for the experience alone. You'll be treated differently, but xenophobia is not the word I'd use. I'm white and my experience was pretty great, though I'm not…

I don't agree. English in Beijing is not so common, but Hong Kong its very common.

Not common at all in Hong Kong either... except in hotels and written on restaurant menus and official documents. It's supposed to be a bilingual city... but not in practice. You want English? Go to Singapore or Malaysia.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#93

Post by rahimnathwani »

are595 wrote: post #14
cleric wrote: post #11

Hello. Im a Swedish Sofware engineer and I have been working in Beijing for the last ~4 years. As others have pointed out, China is huge, and I have no experience from working in Hongkong or Shanghai where the vibe is more international, or so they say. So what to expect? Smooth sailing, as long as you can deliver. There is a lot of companies that value English speakers in general, so dont be surprised if you get pam…

Not OP, but I am also very interested in CS jobs in China (might apply too :3). (BTW, your site's job page seems to be down: http://jobs.p1.com/tech ). How do you find the cost of living is, given that Beijing is such a large city. Are you able to save money for retirement, etc?

Some figures to help you budget:

Rent: US$800/month for a room in a shared apartment; $1600/month for an OK 2-bedroom apartment

Food: $4 for a McDonald's meal. $10-$15 for an American breakfast. $5-$7 for a beef ramen dish. $2.50 for a Subway sandwich. Western foodstuffs (like cheese) can be expensive compared with the same brand in the US. Meat and vegetables (if you cook yourself) are decently priced. Obviously expensive for things that are imported (an avocado is ~$2), but locally-grown stuff is cheap.

Transport: less than US$1 per subway ride. US$7 for a typical taxi ride within central-ish parts of Shanghai or Beijing.

Entertainment: Eating/drinking in Western restaurants and bars/pubs is cheaper than in London or San Francisco. A beer and a nice burger in a western pub in Shanghai or Beijing will run about US$16.

The above prices include sales taxes, which are included in quoted prices. There is no tipping.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#94

Post by cttet »

Fej wrote: post #76
cleric wrote: post #11

Hello. Im a Swedish Sofware engineer and I have been working in Beijing for the last ~4 years. As others have pointed out, China is huge, and I have no experience from working in Hongkong or Shanghai where the vibe is more international, or so they say. So what to expect? Smooth sailing, as long as you can deliver. There is a lot of companies that value English speakers in general, so dont be surprised if you get pam…

What's the deal with the pollution? Are you worried about your long-term health? China sounds great and all (well, except for that whole "totalitarian government" thing) but I'd never trade my well-being for money.

The pollution situation is also different in different parts of China as well. http://aqicn.org/map/#@g/27.2404/110.7692/4z

If you around Shenzhen/Guangzhou area the air quality is quite OK

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#95

Post by jploh »

Lived in Shenzhen, Southern China for a year in tech. Most foreigners I met there were either English teachers or in trading.

I come from Southeast Asia so the treatment is different (white privilege is extremely beneficial). Xenophobia is next to none. I managed to join a Chinese football/soccer team and badminton group.

I didn't apply for the job in China on purpose so can't help you on that. The difficulty of obtaining a visa sits on polar opposites. If your employer is a legit and big organization, you can get a legit one.

Others I met in Shenzhen just went with a business visa good for 30 days. This worked fine in this city since you can simply take a train to Hong Kong and reset your stay. Get a passport with more pages if you plan to do this.

Culture - most Chinese are very tolerant or don't care at all. I've heard other people say that Chinese are rude/impolite. You get used to it or get too tired of it.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#96

Post by rahimnathwani »

United857 wrote: post #9

I worked in Shanghai, China for 3 years for Ubisoft (game developer). Senior-level experienced talent is still hard to find, so it's relatively easy to get a job and work visa (which will be sponsored by your company once you accept a offer) compared to first-world countries. This is doubly true if you have a well known tech company on your resume (Google, FB, etc) I'd recommend working for a multinational company (o…

Rents have gone up a lot in the past 10 years. These days, $1000 will get you an OK 1 bedroom apartment in OK area in Shanghai. $2000 will get you a nice 3 bedroom place 20 mins walk from the financial district.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#97

Post by Guyag »

matttheatheist wrote: post #92
bogomipz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. English in Beijing is not so common, but Hong Kong its very common.

Not common at all in Hong Kong either... except in hotels and written on restaurant menus and official documents. It's supposed to be a bilingual city... but not in practice. You want English? Go to Singapore or Malaysia.

That wasn't my experience when I was there. While it's true that the average citizen may/will not speak English, it's more common than just in the high end areas that you mentioned.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#98

Post by Guyag »

jploh wrote: post #95

Lived in Shenzhen, Southern China for a year in tech. Most foreigners I met there were either English teachers or in trading. I come from Southeast Asia so the treatment is different (white privilege is extremely beneficial). Xenophobia is next to none. I managed to join a Chinese football/soccer team and badminton group. I didn't apply for the job in China on purpose so can't help you on that. The difficulty of obta…

> I've heard other people say that Chinese are rude/impolite.

In casual (especially informal) conversation I'd say there's a cultural norm of being more direct than we are in the west. This isn't, I don't think, in an attempt to offend. That swings the other way in business (or so I have heard) where criticism is carefully constructed (at least within a business) to minimise any potential offence given. YMMV.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#99

Post by cleric »

Fej wrote: post #76
cleric wrote: post #11

Hello. Im a Swedish Sofware engineer and I have been working in Beijing for the last ~4 years. As others have pointed out, China is huge, and I have no experience from working in Hongkong or Shanghai where the vibe is more international, or so they say. So what to expect? Smooth sailing, as long as you can deliver. There is a lot of companies that value English speakers in general, so dont be surprised if you get pam…

What's the deal with the pollution? Are you worried about your long-term health? China sounds great and all (well, except for that whole "totalitarian government" thing) but I'd never trade my well-being for money.

Well, simply put. Its bad. But it was muuuuch worse before. This goes for Beijing specifically due to historic and geographic reasons.

When I came here the PM 2.5 (particle density yadayada) was 400 on normal days and 200 was a "good" day. Something that would cause riots back home in EU. After that it just got worse and worse until we peaked 1k, which we nicknamed the Airpocalyps.

After that the gov started to do a lot of things and magically around the time Beijing hosted the APAC 2014 meeting, the skies cleared and we remembered the smell of nature, I also could not stop looking at the moon at night, since I didn't realize that I hadn't been able to see if for a long time.

After that the 75 year military parade to celebrate the Victory over Japan came along and made the sky magically blue again, and we have not really gone back after that.

Its still bad (~150 PM 2.5) at the moment, but its not stable bad. When the humidity is high particles stick around longer, when it rains it clears up the pollution too. (Where does it go? I dont want to know.)

But, we have 20+ expensive air cleaners at work, I have one at home and I always put on a M3 mask on days when its above 200.

We also awesome people here who tackels these problems in great ways. http://smartairfilters.com/ I bought their products for my home.

If you want to eat healthy there is alternatives but might require some research and a little knowhow.

As for the totalitarian thing, don't rock the boat.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#100

Post by cleric »

are595 wrote: post #14
cleric wrote: post #11

Hello. Im a Swedish Sofware engineer and I have been working in Beijing for the last ~4 years. As others have pointed out, China is huge, and I have no experience from working in Hongkong or Shanghai where the vibe is more international, or so they say. So what to expect? Smooth sailing, as long as you can deliver. There is a lot of companies that value English speakers in general, so dont be surprised if you get pam…

Not OP, but I am also very interested in CS jobs in China (might apply too :3). (BTW, your site's job page seems to be down: http://jobs.p1.com/tech ). How do you find the cost of living is, given that Beijing is such a large city. Are you able to save money for retirement, etc?

Yeah, that page might be a bit out of date. I think we are mostly using some big recruitment agency these days.

Our current app that is developed is Tantan http://tantanapp.com/jobs No big support for that page in English but its a fun Google Translate moment.

Emails sent to my previously mentioned email will be reviewed by our hr dept.

For the cost of living. Its really nice. You have the full spectrum of super mega fancy stuff down to a bed in a concrete room for 100 CNY a night. The beauty is that a beer costs around 3 CNY (1 U.S. dollar = 6.6712921 Chinese yuan), you can have a feast with your friend and pay 30 CNY each including drinks. Dont buy the vodka drinks for 10 CNY each if you value your brain. Bus is 1 CNY and Subway is 2 CNY. Taxi almost anywhere is 30 CNY.

Living can also be cheap if you only want a normal apartment in a tall apartment building suburb, ~10-20min subway from downtown. Ranging from modern 4-6k/m apartments down to 2k/m old-styled-no-elevator prefab Chinese apartment blocks. Floor space in some places are very cheap too so living with 3 other roomates could also make it very cheap.

For salary, I get paid almost what I would in Sweden, but the tax in China is very low compared to Sweden, around 10-15% in China, so I get a lot more disposable cash. But since there is a lot of fun stuff to do, I don't really hold on to it long. But my friends who don't really party a lot and don't mind eating street food for less than 10CNY save a lot of money.

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