Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart • Hacker News Board

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#61

Post by mbesto » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

dougmccune wrote: post #6

audleman wrote: post #5

Why hasn't this guy donned all black and put this piece for sale in a swanky gallery for $1mil? It's the perfect blend of art and social commentary, and beautiful to boot!

If you come pick it up it can be yours for the low low price of a cool half mil. But seriously, I'm just dipping my toes into this whole artist thing, I definitely don't know how to navigate the gallery/sales world. Right now I just like making shit, maybe one day I'll try to make some money doing it.

90% of artistic value is simply saying the art has value. Tell people you've had several offers for $100k and you can probably find someone offering $101k for it.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#62

Post by dougmccune » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:48 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #61

dougmccune wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you come pick it up it can be yours for the low low price of a cool half mil. But seriously, I'm just dipping my toes into this whole artist thing, I definitely don't know how to navigate the gallery/sales world. Right now I just like making shit, maybe one day I'll try to make some money doing it.

90% of artistic value is simply saying the art has value. Tell people you've had several offers for $100k and you can probably find someone offering $101k for it.

I've had several offers for $100,000. I'd certainly consider your offer if you can beat that. Paypal my email address :)

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#63

Post by honkhonkpants » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #49

honkhonkpants wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High rises are one thing but they are not the way to solve SF's housing shortage. One 5-story building on one corner of every block in the sunset would easily relieve the shortage. Geographically speaking most of SF already suffers from poor quality of life. Except for the northeast quadrant of the city, SF is dominated by flat, boring, ugly zones of car-centered banality. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7398485,-122…

> There's nothing in this photo worth preserving. In the Midwest, if someone built that photo (exactly) it would get called a strong downtown urban design, and the builder would be praised for creating "missing middle" housing.

Well I heard there's a couple of nice towns in the midwest, like Chicago :-) Even in the most reactionary fringes of the midwest people are starting to realize that exurban sprawl isn't working. See for example http://newsok.com/article/5505468

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#64

Post by stevewilhelm » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #44

stevewilhelm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores the impact on all the services and infrastructure that would be effected by additional housing: transit, roads, hospitals, schools, etc.

All of which could be paid for much better by distributing the taxes over the new residents. Economies of scale should make denser cities cheaper and more efficient.

It is very expensive and time consuming to do major infrastructure projects in San Francisco. Case in point:

"Due to the capital cost ($1.578 billion for the 1.7 mile light rail line), the Central Subway project has come under criticism from transit activists for what they consider to be poor cost-effectiveness.[20]

In particular, they note that Muni's own estimates[21] show that the project would increase Muni ridership by less than 1% and yet by 2030 be adding $15.2 million a year to Muni's annual operating deficit."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Subway

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#65

Post by meddlepal » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

lr wrote: post #57

lr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a suburb inside of a city. And the inhabitants of that area of The City like it that way. The people who live in the Sunset and Richmond form very powerful political blocks, and you're going to have to do a lot to unseat their representatives on the Board of Supervisors.

Maybe start-ups can convince their employees to move to the Sunset with the singular goal of voting in a pro-growth person to the Board of Supervisors. You can do this one district at a time.

Or startups could just go to cheaper COL cities.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#66

Post by Camillo » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

dougmccune wrote: post #25

corysama wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. So, the question becomes: is this 3D printed chart misleading or is it focused on the relevant data? I must stress that I'm realize I'm being very analytic about a piece of art. As art and as a statement, I recognize that it is very well done. I just don't have much to say about it other than wondering if it is misleading.

Can the answer be both? If you're trying to use it as a chart to figure out home prices it doesn't provide enough information and it's misleading when it comes to determining the numeric relationship between regions. But if you're using it to get a sense of the impossibility of moving from one of the lower-cost parts of the city to one of the more expensive areas of SF, I think this captures that emotional feeling. I…

What are you talking about? The Richmond is not adjacent to Twin Peaks or Noe Valley. It's not even close. There are several neighborhoods in between.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#67

Post by tomschlick » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:54 PM UTC

omegaham wrote: post #40

tomschlick wrote: post #4

As an outsider, the solution to the SF housing issues seem pretty simple... Vote out the NIMBY politicians and replace them with people who will change zoning laws to allow for more building. I'd assume almost no one likes the current situation unless they are a landlord.

The current system screws over newcomers in favor of longtime residents. Rent control and Prop 13 mean that if you've been living in SF for a couple of decades, you're paying bargain-basement prices for either rent or property tax. Asking people to vote against their interests doesn't work very well.

It also screws over people making less than 100k who can't afford a 4k/mo 1br apartment.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#68

Post by Grishnakh » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

coenhyde wrote: post #47

whyenot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an outsider The problem is that "NIMBY politicians" are elected by NIMBY residents. If you are a homeowner, or live in a rent controlled apartment, SF is a fantastic place and there is little incentive to get rid of zoning laws. To fundamentally change the rental market in SF, you need to craft an argument that convinces these voters to change their minds. The "hey, lets get rid of zoning laws so we can build to…

I think the best argument for building more is to keep SF weird. A lot of people are sad SF has changed so radically; become less artsy. These same people argue against building up, in the misguided notion that it will destroy their lovely city. But imo what's destroying SF is not high rises but anyone on a sub $100k salary has to live somewhere else. It's becoming a mono culture. And at the end of the day bitching a…

Well eventually it's going to have a real problem if service workers can't afford to live there. What are they going to do, pay maids and janitors $30/hour to entice them to commute 4 hours a day?

There's lots of places where the real estate values are very high, and poorer people are completely priced out of the area. Those places don't have a problem with that, because districts where lower-income people can live aren't all that far away, so it's not that big a deal for service workers to commute so they can work in or near there (as maids, housekeepers etc. for the rich people, or at the local businesses like restaurants located conveniently to those rich people).

The problem in SF is that it's geographically bound, and all the surrounding areas also have very high real estate values, so service workers who don't live in one of the rent-controlled places have to commute from very far away.

I think eventually, this is going to be a self-correcting problem if the NIMBYs prevent any new development. Pretty soon, it's going to suck living in SF because you won't be able to go out to eat there, you won't be able to buy any groceries there, you won't be able to hire a housekeeper there, etc. It'll be like living way out in the country, but you'll be surrounded by neighbors.

Personally, I think they should probably outlaw rent control (it'd probably have to be done at the state level). That's probably enabling SF to maintain itself this way, by giving lower-income people a place to live nearby. Eliminate rent control and those rents will go through the roof, pricing them all out of the city. Then the landowning residents can suffer without any services.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#69

Post by Camillo » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 7:56 PM UTC

honkhonkpants wrote: post #45

lr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who do not own (i.e., renters) in SF also do not want high rises. They feel like SF would have a long way to go before all of the foreign money runs out and those apartments would become affordable to them. In short, they don't think more building will benefit them in terms of housing, but will instead be bad for them in terms of quality of life, e.g., more people and traffic, etc.

High rises are one thing but they are not the way to solve SF's housing shortage. One 5-story building on one corner of every block in the sunset would easily relieve the shortage. Geographically speaking most of SF already suffers from poor quality of life. Except for the northeast quadrant of the city, SF is dominated by flat, boring, ugly zones of car-centered banality. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7398485,-122…

Right, the notion that there is no room in SF is a complete lie. The Sunset and the Richmond could be completely razed to the ground and rebuilt at mid-rise density.

Re: Sculpture of Housing Prices Ripping San Francisco Apart

#70

Post by peteretep » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

dougmccune wrote: post #51

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you don't want to (because you'd rather be making art than websites, say), then ask. There are a metric truckload of people here who could do one for you...

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not the website aspect of selling stuff that's the blocker. It's more the figuring out how to do pricing, shipping, networking in the art world, etc. And I'm still working up the self confidence to be able to call myself an artist with a straight face and say it confidently enough to ask for money and get someone to write a check.

Sounds like an agent