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The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

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Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#111

Post by [deleted] »

boona wrote: post #100
vasilipupkin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for example, if it's indeed true that Peter Thiel is skeptical of women's suffrage, then I think it is reasonable to conclude that he is probably at least to some extent an idiot and we should view his actions at least partially through that prism

I would love to hear WHY he's skeptical. I'm sure he's heard all the traditional arguments like we have, which means he has additional information that I don't. Don't you think it's more intellectually honest to question and hear what others have to say rather than just paint them as idiots because they don't believe what you believe.

[deleted]

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#112

Post by throwaway13337 »

Houshalter wrote: post #102
wmil wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In February 2009, NumbersUSA was called a nativist organization by the Southern Poverty Law Center's report 'The Nativist Lobby', though the SPLC also stated that there is no evidence of racism on behalf of Roy Beck or his organization."[1] There are plenty of people in the press who consider all discussion of immigration reduction or control racist. That doesn't make it so. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers…

I've noticed a phenomenon for political words to lose meaning over time, and become fully general insults. The right uses "socialist" excessively for example. The left uses words like "racist" in a similar way. Most people called socialist would say they don't support socialism or socialist policies. Most people called racist would say they don't think their race is superior or that we should discriminate based on ra…

Most people called socialist do indeed support socialist policies - they support government programs like medicare, public schools, and other social welfare programs.

Those calling them socialists are probably a bit socialist too, though.

This only fuels your argument that political words lose meaning over time.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#113

Post by [deleted] »

mwfunk wrote: post #107
boona wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to hear WHY he's skeptical. I'm sure he's heard all the traditional arguments like we have, which means he has additional information that I don't. Don't you think it's more intellectually honest to question and hear what others have to say rather than just paint them as idiots because they don't believe what you believe.

Why would you assume that someone who mentions Thiel's statements about women's suffrage hasn't heard his arguments? Don't you think it's more intellectually honest to question and hear what others have to say rather than just paint them as idiots because they don't believe what you believe? Also, do you think that it is even theoretically possible for someone to make a meaningful argument that women's suffrage is so…

[deleted]

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#114

Post by vasilipupkin »

boona wrote: post #100
vasilipupkin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for example, if it's indeed true that Peter Thiel is skeptical of women's suffrage, then I think it is reasonable to conclude that he is probably at least to some extent an idiot and we should view his actions at least partially through that prism

I would love to hear WHY he's skeptical. I'm sure he's heard all the traditional arguments like we have, which means he has additional information that I don't. Don't you think it's more intellectually honest to question and hear what others have to say rather than just paint them as idiots because they don't believe what you believe.

I am not painting anyone as anything. It is mathematically and logically correct to assume that there is substantial likelihood that when you hear someone say something idiotic, then that person saying that idiotic thing is in fact an idiot. If I hear additional information, I am happy to revise my opinion if necessary. But innocent until proven guilty is not necessary, this is not a criminal court

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#115

Post by choko »

winter_blue wrote: post #71
randothrowaway wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are total hypocrites Maybe they are angry because people are coming illegally.

You are being dishonest if you think it's about legality. It's not about that. It's about the race of the immigrants. If all our illegal immigrants were from Germany and Ireland, I am certain that there would be far less complaining. In fact most of the angry people today would not be fighting to keep them out -- they'd be fighting for visas for them.

>If all our illegal immigrants were from Germany and Ireland, I am certain that there would be far less complaining

Very curious, on what do you base this certainty? Is it just a feeling based on personal experience?

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#116

Post by Houshalter »

winter_blue wrote: post #50
vkou wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The net immigration rate to the US is 0.38%. That's hardly 'mass immigration.' I take it that means he's happy with the status quo? And, if not, when is he going back to Germany?

Yes, most people don't realize that the U.S. actually has a super low 0.38% immigrate rate. It's truly extreme xenophobia and racism that these liars who falsely claim "mass immigration" can't tolerate the tiny 0.38% that comes to the U.S. every year. They see a few immigrants in their neighborhoods, and their blood immediately starts to boil, and they get filled up with loathing and hatred. They are total hypocrites…

1 in 8 residents being immigrants is not super low. The rate of immigrants per year is irrelevant, as it adds up a lot over time.

I guarantee that people would complain if the immigrants were European. Because they did in the past! In the past a huge number of immigrants were from Ireland and other countries, and there was lots of hatred and anti immigration movements. It has literally nothing to do with race. People fear immigrants because they take their jobs, and see them as competition. They are also concerned about crime and increased population density, or worried about their culture being replaced, or the immigrants political influence, etc. But mainly it's economic, and I think the concern is genuine.

>"most Americans saying no immigration are here because their families immigrated in the last 200 years"

That's a nice soundbite, but a poor argument. All countries are descended from immigrants. Human beings have migrated and conquered other lands since the beginning of time.

That's totally irrelevant to whether an immigration policy in 2016 would have a positive or negative effect on current US residents. And if they believe it has a negative effect, why would they vote for it? Because their ancestors would? So what?

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#117

Post by lisper »

no_flags wrote: post #91
lisper wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you have a few dozen million dollars, it's not so hard to maintain and grow that (unless you go on idiotic spending sprees) because you start getting access to the kind of investments that have much higher expected returns than the kind of investments a blue collar worker has access to. This. This is really important to understand because it's the fundamental cause of the divide between the super-rich and ever…

> access to the kind of investments that have much higher expected returns than the kind of investments a blue collar worker has access to. What kind of investments are you and the original comment referring to?

It's actually less about the kind of investment and more about the terms you can negotiate. If you can buy in for half of what anyone else can buy in at then your return will be twice what everyone else's return will be, and you losses will be half of what everyone else's will be, regardless of anything else that happens.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#118

Post by xorcist »

Houshalter wrote: post #95
GuiA wrote: post #34

The Diversity Myth, a 1995 book [Thiel] co-wrote with David O. Sacks, railed against multiculturalism, which, they wrote, “exists to destroy Western culture.” What is up with all these people lately thinking that Western culture is some form of homogeneous block that's been unadultered for millennia and has recently come under "multiculturalist" attack? Especially coming from the US, a country that didn't exist when…

I'd be interested in seeing what the arguments in the actual book are. I recall reading something about this before, that pointed to evidence that more diverse groups are less happy and have more conflict. And that people in general like being part of a group of similar people and having a group identity, humans being tribal creatures. Anyway I'm not sure he's claiming western culture is homogenous. But it does seem…

I'm interested in what that would be. From a northern European perspective, we have strong cultural ties to the US (given that we were part of the whole colonization thing). Yet there are politicians there that question women's rights to abortions quite seriously, argue from the basis of religious rather than scientific conviction, oppose music and art and vaccinations and climate science on the same grounds that I find to be culturally much closer to hard line Islamic clerics than the culture in my immediate vicinity. So I'm not really sure if you can define that cultural cluster in a way that a majority the people in it would accept it.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#119

Post by tstactplsignore »

randothrowaway wrote: post #70
tstactplsignore wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you paid attention at all? Anti-climate change, anti-vaccines, the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across the border is net neutral right now), his whole "crime is rising" schtick (it isn't),and the vast majority of [what he says are outright lies]( http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ ). There is no better way to describe the Trump campaign than to say it is inherently against f…

>the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across >the border is net neutral right now), Not it is not. Pro illegal immigration advocates try to mislead by saying immigration from Mexican citizens is down to mean illegal immigration isn't happening. It is now other groups but still coming VIA Mexico.

No, that's just not true. The best estimates of all illegal immigration are that it is close to net zero. (http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb...).

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#120

Post by [deleted] »

Houshalter wrote: post #105
vkou wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The net immigration rate to the US is 0.38%. That's hardly 'mass immigration.' I take it that means he's happy with the status quo? And, if not, when is he going back to Germany?

1 out of 8 people in the US are immigrants. That's the highest it's ever been in recent history. And more than enough to have a big effect on the economy.

[deleted]
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