Why I’m Suing the US Government • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#141

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:13 PM UTC

ygjb wrote: post #71

rayiner wrote: post #33

Circumvention by itself definitely shouldn't be illegal, and it's probably unconstitutional to make building and researching circumvention mechanisms illegal. But I don't buy Step 2. > EFF is representing plaintiff Andrew “bunnie” Huang, a prominent computer scientist and inventor, and his company Alphamax LLC, where he is developing devices for editing digital video streams. Those products would enable people to mak…

Um, if I am a content consumer that has legitimate access to content streams from two different sources, why am I not allowed to multiplex those streams in a way that is useful to me? This is not about Twitter, or CNN, but the users ability to consume content that they have legitimate access to in the way that they choose. Replace twitter in this example with the ability to feed an audio stream into a speech recognit…

Which is why I said circumventing copy protection shouldn't be illegal. You should be able to make that video and use it for your own purposes. My problem is with Step 2 of the article's hypothetical: instead of feeding the video into a speech-to-text machine for your own use, you put it on Twitter where Twitter makes a bunch of money off something that was mostly CNN's work.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#142

Post by blastrat » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:14 PM UTC

yes I agree, and also, what? why should PP's question be downvoted-to-hell?: He's entitled to defend the other side here.

Not saying you did it, but I had to comment someplace.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#143

Post by DanBC » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #101

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #94

Good. My wife is a speech therapist and uses a system that is designed to help people who have had strokes regain their voice. It comprises a piece of software that comes with a "specially calibrated USB microphone". The microphone is actually a Samson laptop USB mic that had the voice improvement systems logo stuck on it. The system came with lots of legal warnings about not copying, not telling unqualified people a…

How much does your wife charge as a therapist? Everyone needs to make money. HN is a weird place to bemoan prices when many here are seeking unicorn valuations while disrupting industry. Everyone hates laws until its in their best interest to have said laws.

People aren't complaining about the price, they're complaining about the fucking stupid way that price is enforced and the gouging that happens when the inadequate hardware fails.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#144

Post by bdhess » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

onetwotree wrote: post #98

Svenskunganka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amendment rights.

Under American contract law you can sign away any of your constitutional rights. Be careful what you put your magic squiggles on.

Not necessarily, if the contract can later be found to be unconscionable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#145

Post by imgabe » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #33

Circumvention by itself definitely shouldn't be illegal, and it's probably unconstitutional to make building and researching circumvention mechanisms illegal. But I don't buy Step 2. > EFF is representing plaintiff Andrew “bunnie” Huang, a prominent computer scientist and inventor, and his company Alphamax LLC, where he is developing devices for editing digital video streams. Those products would enable people to mak…

Why should CNN profit from captioning their video with Twitter users' commentary? It goes both ways.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#146

Post by icebraining » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #33

Circumvention by itself definitely shouldn't be illegal, and it's probably unconstitutional to make building and researching circumvention mechanisms illegal. But I don't buy Step 2. > EFF is representing plaintiff Andrew “bunnie” Huang, a prominent computer scientist and inventor, and his company Alphamax LLC, where he is developing devices for editing digital video streams. Those products would enable people to mak…

Why should CNN profit from words they didn't create?

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#147

Post by jcoffland » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #141

ygjb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, if I am a content consumer that has legitimate access to content streams from two different sources, why am I not allowed to multiplex those streams in a way that is useful to me? This is not about Twitter, or CNN, but the users ability to consume content that they have legitimate access to in the way that they choose. Replace twitter in this example with the ability to feed an audio stream into a speech recognit…

Which is why I said circumventing copy protection shouldn't be illegal. You should be able to make that video and use it for your own purposes. My problem is with Step 2 of the article's hypothetical: instead of feeding the video into a speech-to-text machine for your own use, you put it on Twitter where Twitter makes a bunch of money off something that was mostly CNN's work.

But it does not say "put it on Twitter" anywhere. It says mix with a Twitter feed. You're reading more into it.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#148

Post by hiram112 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #101

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #94

Good. My wife is a speech therapist and uses a system that is designed to help people who have had strokes regain their voice. It comprises a piece of software that comes with a "specially calibrated USB microphone". The microphone is actually a Samson laptop USB mic that had the voice improvement systems logo stuck on it. The system came with lots of legal warnings about not copying, not telling unqualified people a…

How much does your wife charge as a therapist? Everyone needs to make money. HN is a weird place to bemoan prices when many here are seeking unicorn valuations while disrupting industry. Everyone hates laws until its in their best interest to have said laws.

Though I don't necessarily agree with you, I'll upvote you as I think you bring up a good counterpoint that's not being discussed.

It's possible that this company's business plan assumed the replacement by obsolescence model - instead of a high upfront cost to recoup their R&D, they expected users to replace it every few years at full cost.

This is no different than the vast majority of the bait & switch type schemes the tech industry and every other market uses. If one is acceptable, I don't see why the other is not, just because a small percentage of the population on HN understands how to replace the electronic components of said hardware.

Should a chemist be able to manufacture patented pharmaceuticals in his garage simply because he/she knows the procedure? What if the drugs cost $10K a month because the company spent billions developing and marketing them? Now what if the chemist decides to make the expensive drugs for his family? And his friends. And their friends. Where does it stop?

The DMCA has been abused, but it isn't so cut and dry.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#149

Post by TrevorJ » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

safeignorance wrote: post #132

toomuchtodo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do you think it'd cost to replicate the software as an open source tool? I've written grants before for funding open source projects, and this anecdote boils my blood.

Taking on Pearson and other companies that use similarly predatory tactics to extract value from society's most disadvantaged is exactly the sort of "disruption" that the world needs more of. That said, I doubt one could go at it alone with no support or with only a grant -- building up mind share, fighting off BS patent threats, and doing enough sales to break even on these non-development costs aren't the sort of t…

Sounds like something Ycombinator should look at soliciting startups for.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#150

Post by DoubleGlazing » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #110

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She barely takes home minimum wage and she is self-employed. Most of her peers are in a similar position. It is not a vocation you get in to for the money. Edit: A common problem in her sector, and other therapy sectors, is that all the recognised diagnosis and treatment systems get bought by the likes of Pearson and other big technical publishers who will demand recurring payments to use the system. For example Owls…

How much do you think it'd cost to replicate the software as an open source tool? I've written grants before for funding open source projects, and this anecdote boils my blood.

Its really simple software, essentially a VU meter.

The therapy involves getting patients to shout in a certain way and try and reach certain volume levels or follow certain volume patterns. E.g. shout gently for five seconds and gradually ramp up the volume over 10 seconds.

It would be really easy to replicate. I reckon the most time consuming part would be testing and calibration.

The whole app directory is less than 2MB.